Moderate, True Grade III routes in the Southeast

grades dont really have much per se to deal with the approaches but really only pertain to the "roped climbing" aspect. I forward you to this grades by alpinist which is what the AAC site has. In that regards there are plenty of people who can climb something like groover in less than a half day. As i've said before i've done 2 full length routes on LK and gone to do a full length whitesides route same day only being nighted on the last two pitches of the OR.

that raises the other issue of is it grade 3 because someone is climbing at their limit and thus will take logner or is it grade 3 because the majority of people climbing it will take half a day on it or is there a difference between the two.

point being the longest routes in the SE are LK, Whitesides, and a few other select illegal places to climb. Next to those is cannon/cathedral in NH which is further than NC from 'bama

Grades are expected to be based on the speed of an "average" party, whatever that means. I also include the descent time in those grades, especially when it involves downclimbing or rappelling and not just a straight forward walk off. I expect the average party takes "most of a day" to climb any of the full length routes at Laurel Knob (I don't think an hour per pitch total unreasonable for "average"). I'm not the fastest climber out there and I've done two LK routes in a day, but I'd never call those routes half a day or less.

Hmm odd I always thought grade also included the approach part of the climb as well. Why is say snake dike called a III? There is no way that should take anyone more than 4 hours on the technical climbing part.

Compare it to royal arches which has longer technical climbing part but overall imo from car to car is much easier / relaxing day.

Wilder's advice is inaccurate, and outdated right down to the terminology. If you want to chest thump, I had onsighted traditional 5.13 and done an 8Italic Text hourItalic Text nose before my RIC. It has nothing to do with the course. Just do the ore reqs and be solid at 5.9, so you can learn about guiding instead of thinking about climbing.

I'm headed out Red Rocks in October. I also just got back from two weeks in the Tetons, only to be repeatedly stormed of the Grand. Hopefully Vegas will have some more predictable weather.

Holler, I'm solid 5.9-5.10 and efficient. It'll be good motivation to get stronger and faster if everyone is crushing 12 and 13s.

Hey I'm looking to do the RIC as well and need to tick off a bunch of multipich climbs, but am thin on climbers that are efficient as well. I'm down to link up this fall. Hit me up Clingingrock@live.com, or message me. Also If you Ice climb most of the climbs in the Black Mountains go Grade III and One or Two is IV.