Rappel rope caught at top. Strategies?

Sure... unless it's a route with a downclimb after you rap or a traverse or an overhang making the route longer than the rappel, or a traversing rappel to higher ground etc. Not trying to start a pissing contest, but I've definitely used a 200 ft rope to rap off routes with more than 100 ft of climbing...you probably have too.

Eric Chabot wrote: Not trying to start a pissing contest,

Me either, especially since I always enjoy reading your posts.

Was trying to make the point that the rope is usually long enough to lead back up based on the algebra... without seeming to point out the obvious.

Unless the rap route differs from the ascent route, in which case you may be having a bad day.

Damn, you guys are ruthless. There's seriously only one guideline... I didn't write down my whole life story in the post, but the deal was that there were perfectly good rap anchors about 10 ft away I told him to use. He knew what he was doing, and I tested him before he went up to clean and he was within earshot if he had any questions or didn't feel comfortable with anything. He wanted to learn the whole experience so I let him, and he has rappelled and built anchors before, just hasn't ever taken them down. It was his rope, so I'm not gonna cry about the rope damage if there was any, and the choice of anchor is obviously not what I would have used if I were doing it myself, but he made a mistake and I'm not going to hold it against him. Doesn't make him an idiot, and yes, in retrospect I should have been more clear about which anchors to use.

As for it being a walk-off anchor placement, it is a long, difficult hike that would normally be easily bypassed by a rappel, which we enjoy doing anyway. It would make no sense to deny him the fun of rappelling when there are perfectly good rappel anchors up there (although he didn't use them).

That said, the anchor choice had virtually nothing to do with my question, unless you guys think that that was the one and only reason the rope got pinned and that it wouldn't happen with another rope.

Please don't lecture me on getting a guide. I got one a couple years ago and it cost me more than I had to pay. I've asked experienced climbers to go climbing with me but the problem is that they only want to go with other experienced climbers, and I only have 1.5 years of climbing under my belt. So MOVING PAST the anchors themselves...

That anchor choice has everything to do with your question. Your rope got stuck because of your anchor choice. If you had not rapped through those hangers, it would not have been stuck and you wouldn't have been asking the question in the first place.

The very fact you don't recognize this is what makes it obvious you have no business instructing anyone else on how to climb.

"If you are rappelling a pitch that's more than half the length of the rope, you may have more serious issues than getting an end stuck."

But you could have a sufficient length rope to climb and rap back down. What if it gets stuck with 1/4 of it still up there? Gotta make sure you have enough free to go back up. Know what I mean? ;)

Jake Jones wrote: Yes, I know.

oops, my bad. definitely undercaffeinated this morning...

Your anchor choice had everything to do with the reason your rope got stuck. It would be very hard to replicate it if the rope was threaded through chains/links.

Rope sticks still do happen though with properly threaded anchors and if that's the case then instead of yanking as hard as you can right off the bat it's much better to try and pull the rope from different angles. I don't like to really put a lot of force on the rope until that's my last option as it can make the rope stick even worse.

You're getting a lot of harsh responses because you made a very basic mistake that could be avoided by reading any climbing 101 book. I know you didn't thread the anchor yourself but you would have understood why the rope got stuck if you had that concept down in your head.

Anyways...no need to get all butthurt. Just take it as a lesson learned and do better next time.

zekem wrote:"If you are rappelling a pitch that's more than half the length of the rope, you may have more serious issues than getting an end stuck." But you could have a sufficient length rope to climb and rap back down. What if it gets stuck with 1/4 of it still up there? Gotta make sure you have enough free to go back up. Know what I mean? ;)

For the run of the mill rope jam, as long as you can lead up the same line the rap follows you will have enough rope to reach the other end.

All bets are off if the wind has blown the free end 50 feet up the cliff or a mountain goat is running away with it or aliens or the like.

As for the OP, nobody is being a jerk by pointing out how bad an idea running the rope through hangers is. They are doing you a favor.

Finally, to answer your original question, yes I've had ropes get stuck in all kinds of inventive ways, often impossible to believe, even. Have seen ropes tie themselves into knots on the way up. Have forgotten to untie the knot before pulling. Have had ropes catch on flakes, fold themselves into crevices, wrap around trees.

I believe there are several threads that outline retrieval strategies.

Wouldn't have wanted to have to prussic up that jammed rope of yours though...

A quick question on pulling a rope after rapping: Do you find it's best to keep the rope moving once it's past the point of hanging in the rap anchors? I've always felt doing that keeps the chance of snagging or jamming lower than just letting it fall into a pile on a ledge or settle into some constriction. Anyone noticed a difference?

Mathias wrote:A quick question on pulling a rope after rapping: Do you find it's best to keep the rope moving once it's past the point of hanging in the rap anchors? I've always felt doing that keeps the chance of snagging or jamming lower than just letting it fall into a pile on a ledge or settle into some constriction. Anyone noticed a difference?

I've found that if you can give a quick snap out away from the wall when the rope end is nearing the anchor the rope will usually fall out and away.

For the clueless....

Metolius rap hanger:

Standard bolt hanger:

Brian Wiesner wrote: That said, the anchor choice had virtually nothing to do with my question, unless you guys think that that was the one and only reason the rope got pinned and that it wouldn't happen with another rope.

Actually the threading the rope through the hangers caused a large part of the problem. Had the rope been through proper rings in the first place by the time the free end of the rope was most of the way up the route it probably would have run free and just dropped.

The sharp bend of the rope over both hangers caused a bunch friction - extra friction. Friction that would not be there if yer friend had used correct anchors with rounded edges. That friction caused you to pull the rope all the time, then short end flipped under the other while pulling.

Even had some thing like happened with the correct anchor without that extra friction you probably could have pulled the rope free.

As how to prevent it from happening. There is nothing one can do once the free end of the leaves the ground. It is going to go where it wants - one can help it along by moving the rope accordingly beforehand but that goes only so far.

powhound84 wrote: Depending on how much of the rope you were able to pull through before it gets stuck, this may or may not give you enough rope to re-lead it. If you have a 70m rope on a 30m climb and the rope gets pinched down on itself, preventing you from pulling the last 20m through the anchors, you are only going to have 20m of rope left on the ground. 20m is not enough to re-lead the climb. You need to be pretty damn sure you have enough rope left before you try something like this.

If the rope is stuck at the anchor, then it's enough free rope to get you to the other end of the rope. Then you may be able to shake the rope loose and pull it down or you may need to switch over to prussik mode to get up to the anchor.

If the rope got stuck after it pulled free of the anchor, you should have enough rope to reach the tangle, again barring freak circumstances. And assuming there's a feasible way to climb up to it.

Edit- Our replies crossed! Maybe worth repeating though? Or I can just delete this.

BigFeet wrote: I've found that if you can give a quick snap out away from the wall when the rope end is nearing the anchor the rope will usually fall out and away.

I'll have to try that. Sounds like a really good idea.

Yall be gentle. Just give instruction without being assholes.

Quick fix for the OP, and at the request of the above poster, Z.St.Jules; carry a quick link, or better yet, a sacrificial carabiner on your harness to leave behind if you ever find yourself in this situation. This way you will always have something to use and leave behind without much worry.

Jake Jones wrote:You may think people harsh, but if you learn from it, whether they were dicks or not, you received instruction that ultimately ended up helping you and perhaps even saving your life. So don't worry about those scratches to your ego, they'll buff out.

There is a humility and/or humbleness that wisdom usually follows.

awww. wow. that was nice. see how much better that is.

Brian Wiesner wrote:I didn't write down my whole life story in the post, but the deal was that there were perfectly good rap anchors about 10 ft away I told him to use.

This brings up another question in my mind. Your friend was top roping, reached these bolt hangers (and removed your gear), then was expected to move 10 ft to then thread another anchor? How was he going to do that safely?

This would have been a good moment to teach the fact that if there is a walk off then it should be used, rather than some anchor funny business for his first cleaning.

Always look for something similar to this. Proper anchors with rap rings. If this is not available you will need to leave behind locking carabiners to rappel from.

Never ever rap directly from the anchors, death will become you.

Here is a link to some useful information.
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q…