Good sport area nearer to New Paltz than Rumney?

kenr wrote:I might guess that by designating a specific pitch as "sport", the guidebook does _not_ mean that it's fairly safe to take a leader fall, assuming you clip the bolts correctly... Better to hope for Comments on MP or other websites, or ... use your own judgment. Ken

Very true! Thinking slab routes that have 15+ feet between bolts. Sport implies "safely bolted".

Optimistic wrote:If marked as sport it's not likely "mixed".

As has been clarified now, and just to be clear since I posted a brief but partly incorrect response, the 'sport' (all bolted) routes may or may not be "G". There may not be any additional means of protecting the route either. In those cases the protection rating for the climb would indicate this with a PG/R/X. This probably would be clear looking through the guide, as I know with many bolted slab routes you will see PG and R ratings. My apologies for referring to these as 'sport'.

Per Jim's response: "Mixed" routes are treated as trad routes in the guide. What I thought were mixed in the guide are actually routes that require a single piece of gear, which are otherwise bolted. [Technically that is mixed (bolts and gear), but in the context of the guide they only use this one specific differentiation]

Now hopefully we're all on the same page!

Optimistic wrote: Thanks Luc. Does the new guide make this distinction fairly clear? I.e. If marked as sport it's not likely "mixed". Could you recommend some good "newer areas"? It's ALL new to me!

With maybe the exception of some routes at Poke-o, all of the areas I mentioned are more modernly bolted--meaning, 5-10 feet between bolts is the norm. Although, I can't think of a single route (at least that I've done) that was dangerously run-out with entirely bolted pro at Poke-o. I suppose if you're used to bolts every 5 feet, like some other areas (Rumney, the Red, Red Rocks), you might be in for some excitement in the ADK.

The general rule of thumb here is: If it looks run-out between bolts, it's probably easier climbing with the bolt protecting the harder moves (My disclaimer: This is a general rule, there are certainly exceptions). Check out some of the route topos for Poke-o in the new book to see how sparse/spaced the bolts are if you're still concerned.

Be safe and happy climbing! :-)

The arc wall near shelving rock is great! It has some easier routes on one end and then a handful of 5.10's on the other end. Really nice setting and usually pretty quite.

+1 for Shelving rock. There is a LOT of great rock there and its location over the water is hard to beat.

ClimbLikeAGirl wrote:the areas I mentioned are more modernly bolted--meaning, 5-10 feet between bolts is the norm.

What matters for safety is not how far you fall. It's what you hit.

I took a leader fall of no more than 10 feet on a new bolted route in Dacks. Right toe hit slopy horizontal ledge, and I got lowered off and was done for the day. Took five weeks to recover.

That's why 5.12 bolted pitches tend to be safer than 5.8: Either they're overhanging, or the non-overhanging slab sections have few features.

Ken

Thanks for all the beta folks! Looking forward to putting it to use when the temps and humidity get a little closer to the sane range again.

the Helderbergs are coming

I'm hearing that the PI Wall at West Point is pretty much off limits now. CSX (the train co. that owns the land) has apparently finally gotten fed up with climbers along the tracks there and wants no more climbing. Even the cadets have stopped climbing there, and that's saying something, given the long history of "sanctioned" climbing (and route development) there by USMA personnel.

Gunkiemike wrote:I'm hearing that the PI Wall at West Point is pretty much off limits now. CSX (the train co. that owns the land) has apparently finally gotten fed up with climbers along the tracks there and wants no more climbing.

I'm a former USMA cadet myself. If you were sneaking in via the rails you were always at risk of getting in trouble with the MPs. I've heard that the cadets just winked and nodded at it, but there was always a risk. (I wasn't into the sport when I was there and had no idea the area was available) You were only in the clear if you'd actually entered through the front gate as a visitor.