Mountain Project Logo

Josh Wharton - Black Canyon - NO HELMET

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349
Josh Janes wrote:...or just mind your own business.
Yes....
Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 635

For one reason or another, climbing has yet to make the move into "helmet culture" the way that skiing has in the last decade, or cycling in the last 35 years. I'm not sure why, and we'd probably be better off all wearing them.

That said, I usually don't on single pitch or often multi, and most of my partners do not either. I've seen a lot of climbers that are VERY judgmental and smug about wearing helmets, which annoys me.

I'll also say that, during an accident report, whenever someone asks if the victim was wearing a helmet, I get the same smug, condescending vibes that I get when someone asks "what was the rape victim wearing?"

Michael Brady · · Wenatchee, WA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 1,316
Pnelson wrote: "what was the rape victim wearing?"
Just dropping the bomb! I like your style
Brian E · · Western North Carolina · Joined Mar 2005 · Points: 348

Wearing a helmet is like tapping up in the creek. Both are aid!

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
Pnelson wrote: I'm not sure why, and we'd probably be better off all wearing them.
I don't know either, but it probably doesn't help that pros aren't even wearing them. And we are talking about The Black here, a 2000+ ft choss pile. Strangely, if enough gumbies complaint to BD & other climbing companies about it, things may change.

Lastly, I'd thought someone who works in the climbing industry would know, as far as things related to climbing goes, you don't just get to "I do what I want"
Pnelson wrote: I'll also say that, during an accident report, whenever someone asks if the victim was wearing a helmet, I get the same smug, condescending vibes that I get when someone asks "what was the rape victim wearing?"
You know that's not a fair comparison. If a kid throws a rock down, hits a climber, and somebody asks if the climber was wearing a helmet, that's one thing.
Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875
reboot wrote: I'd agree if the OP was asking why he doesn't shave his balls. But when you are a sponsored athlete being filmed performing the said sport, you've put yourself out there & it's not an unreasonable question.
Along this same train of thought, I was surprised to see Alex Honnold and Cedar Wright not wearing helmets on any of the runout, mudpile towers -- in high winds -- they climbed in Sufferfest 2 (I believe there was one exception). Even while noting on film that it was somewhat nerve-wracking due to the rock quality.

I have frequently worn a helmet while free soloing. Somehow this makes sense to me.....
Bill M · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 317

It f*ucking hurts to beaned on the head by a rock. Helmets are light, comfortable, and I think everyone should wear them. Sort of like seatbelts in a car.

Just because you are a pro climber that does not automatically make you smart.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

And wearing a helmet doesn't automatically make you safe

Greg Davis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 10

Hahahahahahahha....

Oh man. White people. Got nothin' better to do huh?

Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

Sure, best procedure is to wear a bucket. It's a choice everyone makes for themselves. Effective or not, it goes back what you see a important. I see guys ride motorcycles every day with out one, and would never ride without one. Yet, I climb without one more than I should. As a gumbie, I spent a week at Potreo without one, so consider my advice accordingly.

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

Any statistical evidence that people wearing helmets are all around safer? Obviously if beaned in the top of the head it helps, but do they also make people pay less attention to not being beaned, or otherwise take more risky actions? They certainly have there place, but I see too many times when they seem to skew people's judgement about their safety. It is more important to not get hit or smash into the wall (or ground) then wear a helmet.

Personally, I hardly ever wear one. I do so mostly on multipitch routes that are not my own, so not personally cleaned, or sometimes when initially rapping in from the top to prep projects. Otherwise I usually don't, but am very careful to be aware of my surroundings. Having gumbies preach at me probably makes me not want to wear them, if anything.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

My thought exactly Mark.....You feel safer in a potentially dangerous situation..

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

You're looking a little large for that bathing suit, Tim ;)

Alexey Dynkin · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0
john strand wrote:My thought exactly Mark.....You feel safer in a potentially dangerous situation..
May I ask, where do you guys get this idea from? Personally, I couldn't care less if you or anyone else chooses to wear a helmet or not, but please don't make baseless assumptions about why others make decisions! Hint: I don't know a single person who puts on a helmet and thinks it'll save them from being squashed by a 2-ton block, so let's stop using that silly and irrelevant example...
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

Actually, I don't have them at my finger tips, but there have been studies showing that they increase risk taking. I'll let you Google 'risk compensation' yourself. Anecdotally, just look at kids on bicycles or even skis. When they didn't wear helmets, you didn't see kids doing crazy aerials or other tricks anything like you do now. Put a fat suit and a helmet on and you are far more likely to let your bud shoot you with the potato gun.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
M Sprague wrote:Actually, I don't have them at my finger tips, but there have been studies showing that they increase risk taking. Anecdotally, just look at kids on bicycles or even skis. When they didn't wear helmets, you didn't see kids doing crazy aerials or other tricks anything like you do now. Put a fat suit and a helmet on and you are far more likely to let your bud shoot you with the potato gun.


Yes you did.. Flips on dirt jumpers and snowboards have been around since the 1980s.

I feel like I've heard the same discussion from a few Harley Davidson riders.
Brendan Blanchard · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590
Alexey Dynkin wrote: May I ask, where do you guys get this idea from? Personally, I couldn't care less if you or anyone else chooses to wear a helmet or not, but please don't make baseless assumptions about why others make decisions! Hint: I don't know a single person who puts on a helmet and thinks it'll save them from being squashed by a 2-ton block, so let's stop using that silly and irrelevant example...
My favorite saying goes along the lines of "if it's bigger than the helmet you're wearing, the helmet won't help."

This "baseless assumption" actually draws from accident statistics for cars. After seat belts were mandated, there was a dramatic decline in accident injuries and fatalities, which then proceeded to climb to record highs as people adjusted to their newfound "invincibility" behind the wheel.

And no, this wasn't a fluke. Same thing happened in NYC(?) when ABS brakes were mandated on all Taxis. Taxi accidents plummeted until drivers again figured out their limits and pushed right past them, bringing accidents back to previous levels if not higher.

I don't think that I tend to shrug dangerous situations when I put a helmet on, but then again I only tend to wear one on routes/cliffs with known or likely dangers. The Black would be high on my list for helmet necessity though.

In any case to feed the anecdotal fire, I've hit my head against the rock maybe twice in five years of climbing while not wearing a helmet, but once I put a helmet on, I'm constantly standing up into roofs, flakes etc because I've lost my spatial awareness of how big my head is. *sigh*

  • There is also a slightly sarcastic passage out of one of John Krakauer's books where he argues that removing seat belts and airbags, then adding a 10" spike to steering wheels would teach people to respect driving a little more.
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35
M Sprague wrote:Actually, I don't have them at my finger tips, but there have been studies showing that they increase risk taking. I'll let you Google 'risk compensation' yourself. Anecdotally, just look at kids on bicycles or even skis. When they didn't wear helmets, you didn't see kids doing crazy aerials or other tricks anything like you do now. Put a fat suit and a helmet on and you are far more likely to let your bud shoot you with the potato gun.
I think the study you are referencing actually says cars will not move over as far to pass a cyclist wearing a helmet. It can't really be applied to rocks since they're inanimate.
Alexey Dynkin · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0

I don't think these analogies work well for climbing helmets. The reason is, the primary purpose of wearing helmets is to protect against incidents that are almost entirely outside of your control (the random small loose rock, dropped biner, etc.), which means your behavior really doesn't matter. I take the point about watching for rockfall and other flying objects, but, at the end of the day, you often have just a few milliseconds to react. Maybe I'm just generally innattentive, but I've seen enough random objects like that come down to within inches of myself or others (helmeted or not) to realize that it's ultimately pretty much rolling the dice, so why not increase the odds at least a little? That said, I do agree with the general "mind your own business" argument in this particular case, and I'm not going to preach the "always-wear-your-helmet" line to everyone I see - it's ultimately your decision, and usually situational and a matter of common sense. I'm just saying that the opposite applies, too.

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: I think the study you are referencing actually says cars will not move over as far to pass a cyclist wearing a helmet. It can't really be applied to rocks since they're inanimate.
Nope. Different issue. There are actually studies pointing towards both sides of the argument, so it is not really clear.

^Alexey, I think the point is to not hang out under other climbers and be aware that a cliff with potentially loose rock and gravel is above so you find a protected spot, not just put on a helmet and say "I'm OK now" If you can't do that, say on a multi-pitch, ok, then it makes sense to me to wear a helmet.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
Post a Reply to "Josh Wharton - Black Canyon - NO HELMET"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.