new cams?

Cool Justin. So if I'm understanding you correctly they will be offering Heliums as well as the new models. Awesome!

As far as I know from the emails they will be. They'll have the heliums and new dual axles, just like DMM's demons and Dragons. If they're smart they'll keep them that way and offer a wider verity to their customers. Just like people have posted above some like singles and some like doubles.

Thanks Neil. I was completely thinking about vertical placements. Shows how long it's been since I've climbed in the Gunks. I do recall some bottoming placements there where my Gunks tie off friends worked and the camalots did not.

UK Climbing made a bunch of videos from the trade show, so they have coverage of each of the new cams. Nothing really new/unique said in them though.

https://vimeo.com/134204974

vimeo.com/134207768

vimeo.com/134230205

Bonus: Alien lites (old news) plus Alien bi-color rope that is actually two colors (neon yellow and black), Alien carabiners, Alien quickdraws. Feels like a sign that Fixe/Alien is not really well focused because why would anyone want to buy Alien quickdraws?
vimeo.com/134225100

Nathanael wrote:why would anyone want to buy Alien quickdraws?

Probably to add some adventure back into sport climbing, you know, never knowing if the quickdraw below you will hold your fall, or if it will just break in half;)

Is there anybody to explain me what do they mean by "no anodizing"? Here's a shot of my (almost) brand new DMM Dragon #1. I can see only a bit of remainings of anodizing. Do they suppose we buy brand new cams every week or so?

Almost brand new DMM Dragon Cam #1 (purple). There is almost no anodizing on contact to rock parts of lobes.

This ^^^^

What they mean when the say no anodizing is they strip the anodizing off of the teeth of the cam lobes to provide better night with the rock. They explain in a couple videos on new cams the anodizing can slip a little so the just didn't put it on the teeth of the canning unit.

^so something that happens to a typical cam in the first coupla placements, is now a selling point....

Diggin the true bi-color though!

^^pretty much

Pavel Burov wrote:Is there anybody to explain me what do they mean by "no anodizing"? Here's a shot of my (almost) brand new DMM Dragon #1. I can see only a bit of remainings of anodizing. Do they suppose we buy brand new cams every week or so?

Anodizing has nothing to do with the functioning of the cam (well to some degree corrosion resistance but i am sure with the type of metal they are made from it doesn't matter), if they put less on the part that hits the rock who cares because it will just wear off anyway. The part on the side that you use to see what size it is easy will likely not wear off even if they put a thinner layer.

So i am assuming they are basically say we are only putting 1 layer of paint on instead of 2 layers, because clearly from the picture there is some anodizing?

NM sounds like on the edge that is touching the rock they completely removed the anodizing so the glossy "painted" section of the cam that touches the rock will grip better. This naturally occurs after a little use of any cam.

Better picture where you can see where there is no color on the edge.


Compared to old style with color all on the edge.


So what they are basically tell you is they are pre-wearing the cam for you before you buy it. (similar to what you can get done on motorcycle tires where they will wear the slickness off the edge when you buy them if you want)

ViperScale wrote: Anodizing has nothing to do with the functioning of the cam (well to some degree corrosion resistance but i am sure with the type of metal they are made from it doesn't matter), if they put less on the part that hits the rock who cares because it will just wear off anyway. The part on the side that you use to see what size it is easy will likely not wear off even if they put a thinner layer. So i am assuming they are basically say we are only putting 1 layer of paint on instead of 2 layers, because clearly from the picture there is some anodizing? NM sounds like on the edge that is touching the rock they completely removed the anodizing so the glossy "painted" section of the cam that touches the rock will grip better. This naturally occurs after a little use of any cam. Better picture where you can see where there is no color on the edge. Compared to old style with color all on the edge. So what they are basically tell you is they are pre-wearing the cam for you before you buy it. (similar to what you can get done on motorcycle tires where they will wear the slickness off the edge when you buy them if you want)

Anodizing isn't paint, it is a hard oxide layer created with an electrochemical process. The colors come from colored dyes applied in the process but anodizing can be clear as well. Assuming no clear anodizing was used, WC anodized the lobes prior to the final lobe machine process.

While rough, crystalline rock, such as granite, will wear off the anodization with time it is neither quick nor uniform or wide spread. While likely not a big deal for the grippy rock out there, it still could be an issue with the polished and smooth. Totem discontinued anodization of their cam lobes as they were causing issues on slick rock such as limestone. I could see the same issue with smooth granite etc (I recall a video of a cam slipping out at Mt Lemmon?)

Both WC and DMM appear to be addressing this shortcoming (granted a minor one) by engineering a better cam / rock interface not unlike the cams of old with smooth lobes. Best guess is they oversize the lobe, anodize and then mill it to final shape. I particularly like the effort WC put into why cams walk.

We're at the point where there aren't too many revolutions in protection remaining ( Totem likely the last real shake up). Simply refinements in a system.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Anodizing isn't paint, it is a hard oxide layer created with an electrochemical process. The colors come from colored dyes applied in the process but anodizing can be clear as well. Assuming no clear anodizing was used, WC anodized the lobes prior to the final lobe machine process.

Like a special metal paint (I never said it was paint but it is easiest to just consider it the same as putting protective paint on your wall, just physically different but same purpose), just like normal paint it can provide protection for the metal it covers. It also makes it slick but it wears off after a little use so there is no point in putting it on the part that grips the rock to be honest.

Nothing new, at least the Totems offer something really new, and much better. The weight really only is important if you carry a huge rack. I'd rather have bomber placements with the totems than more with the C4s.

Weight is also a factor if the approach is huge, as in multi-day.

I got my first look at them today at the OR show with Alex Honnold standing right there as well. The weight difference is quite significant and really gets your attention if you hold a single rack in each hand. The trigger to me seems awkward not as sure to the touch...but who knows, that might just be habit forming. In any regard, at the price point they will be introduced in Feb, I am sure the majority of the first reports we get from the field will not be from the most experienced and thus mimic the X4 initial reviews that they break, are less durable, etc. Ignore the noise, no cam is immune to bad placement or lack of directional. For those big approaches for multi day routes, double racks, one is going to really appreciate the weight difference for sure. Wild how they shaved so much weight in one generational move.

C4's OR Show 2015

The difference in rack weight surprised me too. I noticed the lobes are thinner than the regular C4s in sizes smaller than Gold. Nothing wrong with that, just interesting given DMM and Wild Country are moving to wider lobes.

All this innovation is cool :-). Maybe trad is getting new legs.

Those of you folk at the OR

Please ask the BD reps what the lifespan of these cams are

Many manufacturers such as petzl indicate that you should retire soft goods after 10 years or so regardlesa of use

Whats BDs recommendation on the lifespan of these cams ... Even if minimally used

;)

The life span of the cams will be exactly that, ten years of shelf life. So, they will not last as long as C4s do, but that's the case when you buy anything ultra light these days-a trade of weight for durability.