new cams?

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Are you in Europe? US consumers don't buy BD C4's converted from Euros to dollars. I pulled those numbers directly from BD's site.

I haven't seen any MSRP numbers for the US market. If you have them please share. What you have done is assume a 25% increase over C4 MSRP and extrapolated that to the UL. Judging from the MSRP in the euro market (Green C4 is 64.99 euros, UL is going to be 90 euros), the increase is around 38%.

So at least in Europe, they are pricing the Green .75 UL at 38% premium over the C4s Green .75. If you have a link to US prices for C4 ultralights then please share.

internet expert wrote: I haven't seen any MSRP numbers for the US market. If you have them please share. What you have done is assume a 25% increase over C4 MSRP and extrapolated that to the UL. Judging from the MSRP in the euro market (Green C4 is 64.99 euros, UL is going to be 90 euros), the increase is around 38%. So at least in Europe, they are pricing the Green .75 UL at 38% premium over the C4s Green .75. If you have a link to US prices for C4 ultralights then please share.

64.95*1.38 = 89.63

Give math a try, I think you could learn to love it.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: 64.95*1.38 = 89.63 Give math a try, I think you could learn to love it.

Are you just trolling now? You were the one who speculated 25%. I said 38%, based on the Euro MSRP. So, obviously I got 38% by doing MATH between 90 Euros and 65 Euros. Obviously you get 90 back if you apply a 38% increase to 65. Throwing my numbers back at me and telling me I should learn math is pretty low, even for you.

Nice trolling.

90=/=100

The #.4 #.5 #.75 & #1 will be $90. The #2 $100, the #3 $110 and the #4 will be $130.00.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:90=/=100

90 euros. Units. They matter.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:90=/=100

You deleted your post pretty quick. I still got a glimpse of it though.

internet expert wrote: 90 euros. Units. They matter.

Yeah, 64.99*1.38=89.63 (Rounded to 90). I'm using your assumed 38% and it doesn't equal the $100 you stated above.

Your screen name is apropos.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Yeah, 64.99*1.38=89.63 (Rounded to 90). I'm using your assumed 38% and it doesn't equal the $100 you stated above. Your screen name is apropos.

Neither is your 25% which you pulled out of thin air and called it authoritative.

Getting back on track..
Here's a new shot of the redesigned Metolius Master Cams.

If the new prices are accurate, it'll make the currently really expensive totem cams seem more reasonable.

Not a huge fan of the thumb loop here, but mebbe Metolius is going with something that is #trending in climbing.........

Much more free climbing going on than aid nowadays.

Makes them more portable (shorter overall length) without making them much less placeable. And lighter.

People in cold climates will be happy to see the thumb loop gone. It makes a huge difference being able to palm the cam versus having to put your thumb in a loop when wearing gloves. Dmm started and kept the loop less design for palming them in cold weather and their new version of the cams in the Spring line up still hold true to the design.

The trigger attachment is still flawed and until it is fixed Master Cams will be second rate. WC definitely screwed up friends. Now there are 3 cams on the market with the same range and sizes. Single axle cams are better in shallow cracks and the overlap on the traditional friend sizes made them the best for technical placements. Bummer. I'll be scooping up single axles off of the used market I guess, or maybe I'll try the DMM Demons although I don't like extendable slings.

Neil Rankin wrote:The trigger attachment is still flawed and until it is fixed Master Cams will be second rate. WC definitely screwed up friends. Now there are 3 cams on the market with the same range and sizes. Single axle cams are better in shallow cracks and the overlap on the traditional friend sizes made them the best for technical placements. Bummer. I'll be scooping up single axles off of the used market I guess, or maybe I'll try the DMM Demons although I don't like extendable slings.

I've seen no indication that WC is discontinuing the HELIUM Friend line. They just updated them with a double sling for 2015 so it would be strange to see them discontinued. Demon Cams will also provide the legacy Friends sizing I believe.

Not sure I follow how single axels are better in shallow cracks? Narrow Heads sure, axels haven't mattered in my experience.

Wild country is not discontinuing the helium friends they are actually adding the 5 & 6 sizes to the line up this spring.

BD mentions the "patent-pending continuously looped Dyneema® core" multiple times (once quoted here). I wonder if this brings us closer to seamless slings, i.e. without the bar tack? Anyone know whether this is relevant in a significant way?

Justin I hope you are right that they are not discontinuing the Helium Friend, and will have two versions of the friend, one single axle and one double axle. Because this version below doesn't appeal to me at all.
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Mattm, trust me in the areas I climb the difference in depth required for a double axle cam can make or break a placement.

For instance, the 1st pitch of Wild Kingdom (11+ R) at Moore's Wall takes a crucial #2.5 friend placement (it's a ledge fall if it fails) and the 1 and 2 camalot just don't work worth a damn. The same goes for a 3.5 friend placement on Filet o Fish (12a) also at Moore's. Yeah you can get a #3 camalot in there but it's lobes are sticking half way out of the crack and you'd shit your pants if you fell on it (big fall with an injury potential if it fails), where as the 3.5 friend, or an 8 metolius is bomb squad.

Double axles are great and they have their place, especially in deep, parallel sided cracks common on granite or desert sandstone, but in quartzite areas like Moore's Wall, the Linville Gorge, and Seneca, friends are often more useful and secure.

Not a great comparison because a #4 C4 is a half inch bigger or so than a #4 Friend but you can get the idea. Notice how much more meat of the friend can get in a really shallow crack. This the case throughout the range but especially at the .75-4 Camalot sizes.

Single axles are often better for really shallow placements.

Neil they won't be, I emailed them a while back to ask about 5&6 sizesand the design engineer got back with me and said they will be making them in helium sizes in 2016. So it makes no sense to move those sizes to heliums and discontinue the rest.