Trad Rack Beginnings: doubles?

Extrablue wrote:...No don't get hexes. It'll save you some cash now, but in the long run you wont use them.

This

The guy I started climbing with in 1992 had a set of hexes as well as a set of cams, and we used 'em all. The second guy I climbed with also had hexes, but gradually phased them out. When I gradually built up my own rack I never bought hexes.

That said, I have encountered placements where a hex worked better than a cam. It happens. I sometimes think it would be cool to have some hexes, but I'm not rushing out to buy 'em (or tricams, although I've placed them in the past and I know some people love 'em).

Doubles of cams are good, and in many sizes I have them, even triples if you count different brands in the same size range. But before I bring them up on every climb, I usually toss one or two hexes on the rack, which I place ~80% of every pitch I climb. For example, the silver Wild Country hex is about a #.5-.75BD cam in its regular position and a #.75-1 endwise with an offset taper, just beautiful spots for this on most moderates. And tricams, don't get me started, they're so incredibly solid up to about 2", weigh nothing, cost half a cam, and with the new stiff stitching are effortless to place. Plus you don't need to give them more than a gentle handshake to guarantee they won't move when you move above them. Passive gear is an art, and when you get comfortable with it, you'll find yourself looking first for good nut/hex placements and save your cams for making belays as fast and efficient as possible (but put a nut or hex in that too!).

Mountain gear is having an aniversay sale. C4 package 0.5-3 is $240 or $48 each. Master cams on gear coop are $41.95.

You're welcome

Scott O wrote:In NC, I'd get tricams over hexes any day. Hexes are great for smooth granite cracks, but tricams are better in eyebrows and funky quartzite pockets, which accounts for most of what you'll climb as a beginner in NC.

I would second this for climbing in chattanooga. hexes can be useful on a few climbs but not nearly as useful as tri-cams. I can't speak for the rock outside of chattanooga, but imo cumberland sandstone (which makes up a lot of the south-eastern sandstone) tends to form features that eat tricams.

point being, if you're planning on climbing in the south, tricams will do you well. the most useful sizes are pink and red, then probably a tie between the small black one and the brown.

Also, i second the advice of getting different brands for a second set of cams. in most cases, both cams of the same size will work but one brand will often work better.

I started climbing around the time friends were first introduced. I learned with stoppers and hexes, no SLCDs. I learned to depend on and love hexes.

Then got a set of friends. Then first gen Camalots, then TCUs, etc...

While a well placed hex is a thing of beauty, inspiring great confidence, the cams won. I sold the hexes MANY years ago, and never miss them.

Now, have and usually pack doubles of micros, offsets and stoppers to large finger size, pink, red and brown tri cams, TCUs, Aliens and BD C4s. Leading, I carry what seems appropriate for the climb, Have more than doubles in all, but only carry more than doubles in any size for long pitches of a narrow size range like at Indian Creek.

Plus an an occasional bigbro in the wide.

If we climb together, you can carry and lead with your hexes, doesn't bother me, but I'll carry and lead with the cams.

It is unusual these days for an experienced climber to carry hexes preferentially over cams... very unusual. I'd say the last time I climbed with anyone that carried a set of hexes was probably the mid 1990s

I bought a rack of Metolius TCU's a few months back. These are the only ones I have used to trad with. I am fairly new at climbing trad routes. I just hated that every climbing trip I have ever taken I was limited on my climbing, so I decided to step it up to trad. The TCU's I'm using seem like a hassle to place. Anyone lese think that of these types of cams?

JoseM wrote:The TCU's I'm using seem like a hassle to place. Anyone lese think that of these types of cams?

You must be doing it wrong. The one piece of advice I can give you is metolious walk more than other cams, and therefore you must place appropriately. For example I won't set as deep in a crack as I would perhaps a BD cam. This way if they walk from movement they won't be so far back the second can't reach them.

I love my TCU's. They fit in places that the 4 lobe BDs don't fit.

I have had my rack for about 1 and a half year but only really properly been able to use it in the last 6 months i have a set of nuts 8 quickdraws a set of dmm torque nuts and that has gotten me through to E3 5c(5.11a), I have a single cam and i have never even used it, i climbed with a german who came over here with a full rack of cams never using them before i found them a massive pain in the ass to place and sketchy as fuck in the granite we were climbing, after we finished the route he then proceeded to say that he would have preferred the hexes for the rock. What i'm trying to say is, you rarely NEED cams i would also recommend even if you do have the money for cams use nuts and hexes for 3 or 4 months and get a good nut craft.

I have had my rack for about 1 and a half year but only really properly been able to use it in the last 6 months i have a set of nuts 8 quickdraws a set of dmm torque nuts and that has gotten me through to E3 5c(5.11a), I have a single cam and i have never even used it, i climbed with a german who came over here with a full rack of cams never using them before i found them a massive pain in the ass to place and sketchy as fuck in the granite we were climbing, after we finished the route he then proceeded to say that he would have preferred the hexes for the rock. What i'm trying to say is, you rarely NEED cams i would also recommend even if you do have the money for cams use nuts and hexes for 3 or 4 months and get a good nut craft.

Stich wrote: There's two reasons no one really likes hexes and tricams anymore. ................ but cam placements are just plain easier to assess and execute.

Hi, I'm sure this has been done to death before, but:

1. I think "no one" is a bit strong. There are still lots of hex and large wired stopper fans out there. Much depends on the rock type. Near parallel sided smooth cracks are the home of the cam, smooth horizontals being transformed by cams, but complex knobbly or shattered rock is a different game.

2. I'm not sure reliable cam placements are easier, and possibly not quicker, except in simple cracks. I've noted that people seem happy to treat a good big stopper or hex more like a bolt and go for it. Whereas people often seem to need two cams in to give the same confidence much of the time, so any time advantage is lost, particularly if the rock is complex or the climber less experienced.

3. At the other end of the game, for adventure climbing, where you know there is a reasonable chance you will be leaving gear in retreat, hex's sure are a cheaper way than cams (and I hate rapping off single cams 'cos I'm chicken).

4. Cost. There seems to be a lot of cheap big stoppers and cams out there on the second hand market, so I find them cheap. I guess it must be all those people who bought them then found they didn't climb in areas where they used them (they need to travel more), or can now afford 2 sets of cams. In the last two years, I have got through 2 complete sets of hex's just from retreating whilst new routing. That would have been expensive on cams.

that guy named seb wrote:i climbed with a german who came over here with a full rack of cams never using them before i found them a massive pain in the ass to place and sketchy as fuck in the granite we were climbing, after we finished the route he then proceeded to say that he would have preferred the hexes for the rock. What i'm trying to say is, you rarely NEED cams i would also recommend even if you do have the money for cams use nuts and hexes for 3 or 4 months and get a good nut craft.

Where the heck do you climb? To each there own, but you are the only person that I've ever heard say placing cams is a pain, and sketchy cams in granite.

Sounds like it's not the cams man.

Interesting thread. For whatever it's worth, in the last couple of years I have run into two different guys at the city of rocks that carried and used hexes. Both were young fellows, probably in their early 20s? Thought it was kind of cool actually.

I usually climb with three or so hexes as well as pink and red Tricams. Passive pro is good.

Oh, and have to have a set of DMM offset nuts. Love em!!

As far as cams go, I always rack at least one set of C4s. 0.5 thru number 4. I will add a second selection of Camelots as circumstances warrant.

Scott McMahon wrote: Where the heck do you climb? To each there own, but you are the only person that I've ever heard say placing cams is a pain, and sketchy cams in granite. Sounds like it's not the cams man.

All the granite hear is so rounded and the cracks are so shallow it's very rare to find a solid placement, the cracks are also either irregular, flared or both, in both scenarios cams suck all the granite around is so weathered cams are significantly more sketch and a dmm offset or a hex would be much better. To give you a idea of how irregular these cracks are, hexes are often sketch simply due to the lack of points of contact.

that guy named seb wrote: All the granite hear is so rounded and the cracks are so shallow it's very rare to find a solid placement, the cracks are also either irregular, flared or both, in both scenarios cams suck all the granite around is so weathered cams are significantly more sketch and a dmm offset or a hex would be much better. To give you a idea of how irregular these cracks are, hexes are often sketch simply due to the lack of points of contact.

Hmmmm sounds like a good place for maybe offset cams and TCU's.

Any pictures here on MP? I'm interested in the geology aspect of it!

if you intend to progress beyond 5.9 it's doubtful you'll use hexes very long. I'd say the same applies for tricams, although they're great for aid.

Scott McMahon wrote: Hmmmm sounds like a good place for maybe offset cams and TCU's. Any pictures here on MP? I'm interested in the geology aspect of it!

I climb mainly on Dartmoor ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag… this is probably the most popular spot for trad on the whole of the moors, the routes are rarely well protected and often involve relatively long run outs even at a very low grades, no real consistency in the grading and razor sharp granite that can chew your shoes up in a single session it makes it a very "interesting" place to climb.

Ah...the UK. Well that explains it!

Scott McMahon wrote:Ah...the UK. Well that explains it!

Indeed, Couldn't go for TCUs all the breaks are horizontal would have to be single cam, aliens would probably be a better option because it's all so flared.

I get why people find hexes difficult to place...but tricams? Super easy, and super bomber...plus they're the only things that place well in pockets and horizontals. They're also incredibly light, so I don't get why you wouldn't bring them just in case. I don't get the "cams or die" mentality.