SCC Community Forum

Wes, here is what your missing.

You try to say that since paul, Ben, myself, whoever may have climbed on private property at some point that we cannot say that it's wrong for the SCC to promote that sort of behavior and that we cannot hold board members accountable for doing it. As an organization that represents the community they must be held to higher standards! Do police officers break laws? Sure they do. But can they go around saying it's ok to break laws? No they can't. When they are caught breaking a law they should be held accountable for that otherwise it makes the system look like a joke.

Do ppl climb on private land? Yes
Should they? That's hard to say
Should it be promoted as being ok? Hell no

Paul Barnes wrote:I can't wait to see how this turns out.

Uh huh.
#GTFO

Mr. Saxfeind, I have already listed the routes we climbed back in the 80's. Please call either Greg Allen, Stewart Coffield, or James Dobbs if you need to verify your doubts. I did not climb these routes by myself. Do your research and quit whining.

Never mind, 17 pages of crap. This thread has gone on long enough. I am tired of SCC Trolls accusing me of being an eco terrorist at Boatrock, Tired of MP administrators editing my post, and climbers attacking my ethic. It is time to call their bluff. So here it is. Let the original first ascent parties go to Yellow Bluff and try to restore whatever clean climbs that might of been bolted, or I will personally start a Ken Nichols like campaign to erase all bolts on private property in Alabama. It is your move SCC.

shannon stegg wrote:Mr. Saxfeind, I have already listed the routes we climbed back in the 80's.

Yes, we know you listed them. But you didn't provide any context, so nobody knows what you're talking about.

Let me make it real simple for you:

Is there a bolting problem with Tar Baby Blues? If so, where on the cliff would somebody go to find this route and fix it?

Is there a bolting problem with Southern Accents? If so, where on the cliff would somebody go to find this route and fix it?

Is there a bolting problem with Amber Ways? If so, where on the cliff would somebody go to find this route and fix it?

Is there a bolting problem with Mule Time? If so, where on the cliff would somebody go to find this route and fix it?

And so on down the list.

JL

This train done run off the rails, boys.

Paul Barnes wrote:Voices need to be heard! And that's where this forum, or one like it, here, on the SCC board, or ANYwhere needs to be heard. What do YOU want to see it look like? Post here, post on their website, email them, BE HEARD! I am. If you live and climb in Tn, Al, or Georgia... Input is needed on these things. Thoughts? Comments?...once again we seem to have lots of lurkers but not many voices. If you wanna be heard on this stuff....the time is now. SPEAK UP!

These are things Paul said on the first page of this thread. With all those caps, I thought he was talking to me. My bad. You guys should have been more specific though and indicated that you only wanted to hear from people that agree with you. I tried to make my personal opinion heard and I've been called a deeply ignorant newbie poser SCC troll Borg for doing so. Now I'm apparently speaking for all the "faceless masses" and the SCC itself, which I did not intend, and people are saying stuff like "...this will have repercussions" and talking about fighting and wars and such. I understand that a lot people have a ridiculous need to sniff out socialist conspiracies and fight everybody, but I didn't realize I was incapable of having a personal opinion. I didn't mean to intrude on the debate. You guys can have your internet back, no need to fight anyone. Death to the SCC. Sport climbing is neither. Roll tide!


Peace out, bros.

I have no dog in this fight, but no Southern climbing thread is complete without the incoherent ramblings of Shannon Stegg! First the CCC and Laurel Knob and now the SCC. For complete incoherence and rambling maybe Wayne will chime in too! Enjoy.

Paul, pretty impressed with the way you are participating in this. We need someone like you on the SCC board.

Wes too, even though I feel like you are letting your frustrations cloud your points. Which I can understand, there has been some real crap in this thread.

I feel like if the two of you (or two people like y'all) were to meet face to face and draft some type of proposal for the SCC, I would fully support it because you are both closer to the middle ground then pretty much everyone else we have heard from, and the counter balance between y'all's opinions is pretty spot on in my eyes.

The only thing I have to say that really adds anything is this. I would reconsider trashing the name of the SCC and instead go directly after the people who are f@$king it up instead. SCC has done alot of good in the past, and if someone is steering the ship in the wrong way it isn't the ship's fault. Maybe its time for a mutiny (which I am glad that it seems to already be starting). Lets get the names up, and list what they have condoned or done personally.

And lastly, you would go down in history as the biggest douche ever if you put a bolt on Punk Wave. That climb is an ULTRA CLASSIC....

They think I'm a secret identity sent and controlled by the SCC to do damage control. The truth is, Paul and I are actually the same person and we will soon rule the SCC and usher in a new golden age of climbing. Resistance is futile.

I'd like to get that list started. I'll start with the absolute worst board member and his most flagrant transgressions:

Jason Plemmons
- Excessive talking
- Openly enjoys himself at Sandrock and occasionally speaks to Johnny Arms
- Offensively immaculate lat spread
- Dogs
- Talking
- Frequently looks dumb as hell
- Tried to install a bolt ladder on the crux of Punk Wave, stopped by his much stronger friend
- God, the TALKING
- Always needs a rope gun

wwes wrote: The truth is, Paul and I are actually the same person

only one way to know if you're paul. What was the last route at T-wall where we climbed together, cause this thread needs some more of it

Hookers and blow. Amen brother!

saxfiend wrote: Yes, we know you listed them. But you didn't provide any context, so nobody knows what you're talking about. Let me make it real simple for you: Is there a bolting problem with Tar Baby Blues? If so, where on the cliff would somebody go to find this route and fix it? Is there a bolting problem with Southern Accents? If so, where on the cliff would somebody go to find this route and fix it? Is there a bolting problem with Amber Ways? If so, where on the cliff would somebody go to find this route and fix it? Is there a bolting problem with Mule Time? If so, where on the cliff would somebody go to find this route and fix it? And so on down the list. JL

This is such a reasonable question that has been asked over and over. Can we please get an answer?

There are three categories of questions in play in this discussion:
1. Questions about specific areas and routes such as FA history, retrobolting, and ownership.
2. Questions about governance such as those regarding the SCC’s land management practices and policies as well as questions about the election and terms of SCC board members
3. Questions about ethics such as Leave No Trace, Property Rights, and the responsibilities of Stewardship

All three categories are important, but this discussion has spent a lot of time on the first category and very little on the latter two. As several people have noted above the first set of questions is best answered at the crag. (Edit to add that someone should take good notes, some pictures, and then create a database so that we don't have to do this all over again next year)

The second set of questions is problematic even though there has been some agreement on this forum and a variety of helpful suggestions. However, a forum discussion does not always lead to action. As much as we all wish for a response from the SCC here, that is apparently not happening in this forum.

For questions regarding the SCC, its Board, and other SCC matters a member of the SCC needs to formally request action by the Board. If I were a member I would write something along the following lines:
In light of the recent meetings and the MP discussion I formerly request that the SCC consider the following issues:
• Review SCC Land Management policies for marking / advertising boundaries, adding or replacing bolts, and advertising routes.
• Revive discussion of terms for Board members. As part of this discussion I encourage the board to contact other climbing organizations such as the Access Fund or other property-owning, regional organizations that are comparable to the SCC and ask them how their board handles terms, elections, and other aspects of board membership.
It would also be helpful for the SCC Board to be more open in its communications. A first step would be to post the bylaws and up-to-date meeting minutes on SEClimbers.org.

The third set of questions is the most problematic because they get at the heart of who we are as climbers. One has to only look at the many recent discussions on MP related to these broader issues. More on that later—I need to get to work now.

wwes wrote: Offensively immaculate lat spread

Hilarious, way to out yourself Jason.

What isn't funny is when groups like the Access Fund catch wind this, realize that a bunch of clowns are in charge down there who play games on the internet and you damage a very important relationship over your ego.

That^^

You have all lost your minds. My only point in posting here was to say 1) the retro bolting accusations are likely overblown and 2) the SCC is probably not a diabolical conspiracy. Of course, my comments have just been taken as further evidence that the SCC is indeed a diabolical conspiracy. I've actually gotten multiple PMs from people giving me their phone numbers so I can call them to prove I'm a real person and not the SCC doing damage control, or a cyborg, or, God forbid, Jason Plemmons. I didn't realize MP's background checks were so thorough.

I honestly can't see what difference it makes who I am, but for those of you still playing detective, here are some clues to help you out. Go back and look at the video from the ATL meeting:

plus.google.com/u/0/events/…

I'm in the frame for the entire first hour, on the left, standing by the door, in a blue shirt, behind some blonde dude's head. At the 1:14:25 mark (right after Scott tells Plemmons to stop talking, thank God) I ask how many retro bolts are at Yellow Bluff. I believe that's the extent of my speaking at the meeting. This is the exact same question I asked here in this thread. At 1:43:52 you'll see me leave the meeting. Note that the SCC guys just say "thanks" when I leave and not "bye Wes", because they don't know who the hell I am. So either I am who I say I am, or Plemmons has adopted some guy's identity, named him Wes, and is pretending to be him in a public forum. Whatever makes the conspiracy theory fit I guess. Clearly, MP users don't believe in Occam's razor.

I may be a clown, but I'm not in charge of a damn thing. Besides Plemmons, maybe 2 other SCC board members even know my name. I am not the SCC, I am not damage control, and I am not, God forbid, Jason Plemmons. I wasn't even sitting in the damn circle. Paul solicited the opinion of SE climbers on this message board and I gave my opinion. Please stop taking my personal opinion away from me and using it to smear other people and organizations. I'm really tired of saying this, but I think it's important that I make this clear so that we avoid the type of misunderstanding you're talking about.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=sglyF… How Wes must feel right now

wwes wrote:I am not, God forbid, Jason Plemmons.

It took 17 pages, but I think we've finally found some common ground upon which we can all agree. It's fun to make fun of Jason Plemmons.

I say we make him our scapegoat. We can place all our climbing sins upon his head. The hang-dogging, the rap-bolting, the lycra. Then with a smack on the ass we'll send him running naked into the woods, carrying our sins away so we can live good and peaceful lives.

wwes wrote:My only point in posting here was to say 1) the retro bolting accusations are likely overblown and 2) the SCC is probably not a diabolical conspiracy.

Wes, look... I think you are right on both points. I think the retro bolting has been over blown in regards to the amount and I called for people to stop bashing the SCC too. But the way you post comes off like you really do not care anymore and you just want to see Ben eat mud. It is a pretty common and base reaction to get into a flame war on the internet when you are frustrated, so it is understandable. I get pretty pissed when I hear stupid shit, like "sport climbing is neither" and the way Will Eccleston was treated in the last thread doesn't sit right with me either.

So I apologize for thinking you where Jason for a minute there. I know, like, and respect Jason and just thought it reek of his humor when you jokingly made a list about him. He is a good dude even if he thought about bolting Punk Wave....

That being said, two bolts crossing an established route that were put in on a trail day and condoned by (former?) board members is a problem that needs to be addressed. One retro under these circumstances is too many.

Building trails with signage on sanctioned trail days to private property that is condoned by (former?) board members and area reps is a problem that needs to be addressed.

And you are not the only one getting PMs and phone calls. I have had contact from both sides of this over making two posts. People are pretty upset right now and you should ask yourself...am I helping or just another flame?

I hope you guys sort this out for the better.