Trad Rack Beginnings: doubles?

I've started leading some trad for the last year and enjoying it, I've got a mentor with a rack and he's taught me the basics. I've been thinking about buying a rack of my own, just a standard rack: 5 Bd cams, tcus, and some stoppers. I'm sure this will be enough for a lot of the local routes that i'm interested in, and I can team up racks, but I'm planning on a trip to NC soon and ive read a standard rack consist of doubles of cams. I was wondering if hexes would be a good, legit, and safe way to double a rack if I don't have the money for a second set of cams at this time. I don't want to climb hard trad either. (5.5-5.7) thanks!

Tri-cams work too

J Marsella wrote:...I just have doubles in the same brand (wild country tech friends) and rarely run into problems. Good luck with your trip!

I have the same rack from the 90s all the lobes are red.

plug for the Totem Basic cam. I have the old alien versions

I've had places where I just couldn't find the right constriction to place a stopper with confidence. Admittedly, I am alot more comfortable with cams that stoppers.

Regardless, I decided to start adding some doubles. One of my mentors really likes Omega Pacific Link Cams. It's not really a full set of cams, and there are a bunch of other issues with correct placement, so do your research. Still, I think they're better than trying to get by with a single set.

It's worth mentioning that Link Cams seems to be on sale everywhere now. My local shop had them at half price; they just went on sale at REI at almost as much off. I bet they're trying to clear out existing inventory, so an update or discontinuation might be in the offing.

For NC I would recommend double 0.5, 0.75, and 1, single 2 and 3. 1 pink and red tricams are nice, single set of nuts. A min of 4 alpine draws (more would me nice or a few normal draws). I am OCD and like to have matching gear but some people like to have different brands to give little more range (probably more important if you want 2 sets of nuts i would recommend getting 1 set from different makers).

I would not recommend link cams for beginners. I don't have any but have played around with some others have and find they are to much trouble than they are worth.

I got X4s because i am OCD with matching gear (but there are things about them I don't like). I think I like aliens better as far as holding power but the trigger isn't as nice and they are about the same cost. I expect the second version of the X4s to likely be better than this first round. You shouldn't need them for a beginner rack though.

That will get you up most easier trad routes although you probably always want to keep an eye on what they recommend for the route. I would recommend not buying anything at full price, wait and find them on sell if you can.

Personnaly, i prefer avoid mixing brands for cams. I 'have try the N°1 DMM dragon (wich is equivalent to the 0.75 C4 and green too).

But the DMM design without thumb loop make the handling different (no better or worse, different). And it disturb me.

Exception, i double 0.3 and 0.4 C4 with X4 of the same size

I am a newer trad climber as well, and I feel like I just went through this, so here's my $0.02:

I ended up with a single rack of BD cams #0.3 through #3, X4s in the two smallest sizes. There are many trad climbs, particular multipitch routes with gear anchors, that I would not feel comfortable going up without doubles of at least some of the cam sizes (#0.5, #0.75 and #1 seem to be the most commonly used on the easier trad routes that I usually end up on?) that being said, everyone I climb with has cams, so I didn't need to buy doubles of anything.

I thought I could get away without having the #0.3 and 0.4, but I ended up buying them after running it out a few times past perfect small cam placements where nothing else would work.

If I could do it again, I would probably stick with the #0.5-#3 C4s, but get Metolious mastercams for the smaller sizes, if anything because they are cheaper. I think it's just personal preference though, not sure if there is much of a functional difference.

I have the pink, red and brown tricams, but only use them in tricam only type placements (solution pockets etc). I usually leave them behind unless the route description calls for them. I also usually leave the #3 C4 behind unless the route requires it.

I've used hexes before, but I didn't end up buying any... if you don't have partners with cams for doubling up, I would use the money that a set of hexes would cost and buy a few extra cams instead in the most common sizes. In general, I don't think you really need doubles of every size cam unless you are climbing huge splitter cracks all of the time. If you don't have a partner to split gear with, you can probably get away with doubles of just the 3 most common sizes at first and then build out from there?

I am also really trying to wean myself off of the easy cam placements when a stopper would also work. I think I almost prefer a bomber stopper placement to a bomber cam placement, but I may be crazy. I'm even thinking about adding some of the Wildcountry superlight rocks to "double up" on my BD stoppers.

And don't forget alpine draws!

Hope this helps.

I learned to climb at Moore's Wall, Table Rock, and the South Side of Looking Glass with a set of nuts, a blue and yellow TCU, and a single set of camalots 0.5-3.0.

If I were to do it again today with gear available today, the TCUs would be three or four of the Totem Basics. If you're on a budget, tricams work for your doubles. If not, doubles of 0.5-2 in the camalots will be very helpful in NC. A full rack of double cams will probably be your eventual rack.

In NC, I'd get tricams over hexes any day. Hexes are great for smooth granite cracks, but tricams are better in eyebrows and funky quartzite pockets, which accounts for most of what you'll climb as a beginner in NC.

Nate,
At a guess you will be able to buy a full set of secondhand WC or DMM hexes for the price of one cam. I suggest you buy the hexes first. You will learn a lot about placing gear from them that will be useful for the rest of your life. Some of which will transfer to placing solid cams. Cams are easy to place, solid cams less so - as the many posts on this and other sites demonstrate. You may well end up stopping using the hexes once you have your second set of cams if you spend your life climbing solid granite, but if you also climb complex rock types like this

coldmountainkit.com/knowled…

later in life the hexes will come out of retirement.

On big mutlipitch routes where you think you might bail they are really useful. Cheap to leave behind and it feels much better rapping off a single solid hex than a single cam.

" I was wondering if hexes would be a good, legit, and safe way to double a rack if I don't have the money for a second set of cams at this time. I don't want to climb hard trad either. (5.5-5.7) thanks!"

I don't have experience in NC leading but have elsewhere for about a dozen years.

Early on, a more experienced partner discouraged me from carrying hexes. However, for the last few years, I have been doing exactly what you suggest. For example, last Sunday I climbed with 5 hexes, 5 BD C4s, and 15 nuts on a 7 pitch 5.8-. We didn't miss the extra cams at all.

And I can imagine I'd miss the extra cams if I were climbing a lot of parallel-sided crack. But I don't.

Here is what I use:
Standard Rack:

BD nuts 5-13, with doubles in the 6,7,8,9
Offset DMMs
Metolius Master cams doubles in the 2, 3
BD C4s 0.5,.75,1,2,3
thats 9 cams.

I own:
doubles BD up to a #3, and a 4,5,6
doubles Mastercams 0 - 4
Hexes

Depending on the route, I will bring some extra of the sizes I need and I do carry hexes on routes with long pitchesof 5.8 and 5.9 where the climbing is moderate enough to find stances to place gear but hard enough I don't feel comfortable running things way out.

For NC:

• Set of stoppers -
• A few tricams are always nice in NC: Pick, Red, Brown
• Single set of cams from smallest BD to BD #3 (#4 sometimes but not completely necessary for a short trip)
• Doubles are nice in .5-2 (but not completely necessary)
• At least 8-10 alpine draws and a few quickdraws

Generally for NC you want a nice selection of smaller cams all the way up to a BD#3 and a set of stoppers. If you plan on doing a bit of multi-pitching and/or climbing in the Asheville/Brevard area, then a set of tricams from pink to blue, they are great for anchors and horizontal placements (which there are a lot in that area). And plenty of 24' slings for extending gear (8-10).

Was there a particular area/routes you were planning on climbing? That would determine gear selection more precisely.

I have a double set of BD (x4 for smalls c4 for bigs), double set of BD nuts, single set of WC hexes. Hexes were the last thing i bought.

If I was going to start over as a new climber and build a rack, I would get a single set of cams, nuts and hexes. After that Id start filling in my cams for doubles (starting with .5-2). I love my hexes, as a newer leader, a good hex placement gave me a ton of confidence. Also, you wont have trouble placing them if you are climbing the easier climbs as you suggested.

If you are climbing tough climbs and leading makes you nervous, a double set of cams is nice cuz you can just protect endlessly. If you dont feel like you need gear every 5 feet, i think you will be fine with singles on the easy climbs.

The main time (for me) doubles are super nice is long pitch multi pitch climbs that dont have bolted anchors. You will at some points through the climb have a lower anchor built, an entire pitch worth of gear below and have to build a second anchor.

NateNelms wrote:I was wondering if hexes would be a good, legit, and safe way to double a rack if I don't have the money for a second set of cams at this time. I don't want to climb hard trad either. (5.5-5.7) thanks!

Hexes are not a bad option, when I first started leading trad it was mostly in the same range of grades you are talking about and with a little practice, patience and mentoring you can get really creative with them. Tri-cams are also a good low cost option, keep in mind they can be hard to remove even if they don't get loaded. With a bit of knuckle bashing you can almost always get them out, but it can be a pain and time consuming.

Admittedly though, both tri-cams and hexes can be (experience and practice dependent of course) fiddly to place and were the first thing to come off my rack permanently when I was able to get the cams I wanted. If you can arrange the cash, cams will serve you better in the long run and be a more lasting investment.

Good luck and enjoy your trip!

I'm in a similar situation to you, I have BD X4 0.3-0.5 and C4 0.75 - 3 and use a set of DMM Torque Nuts to double up in the bigger sizes. I love the Torque Nuts and find them great to place. The set is 4 pieces and they are color coded to match the corresponding BD cams which is great.

I've never climbed in NC, so can't comment specifically on that, but if you are thinking about hexes, Torque Nuts are the way to go in my opinion.

My two cents:

I really like passive pro. So I use hexes and tricams often (also the DMM Offsets). I use cams where passive pro isn't a good option, and not as a first resort. But that's my preference.

If you're not sure how you feel about passive gear, doubling up on cams in commonly used sizes for your area might be a good way to go. Check out the Totem cams (I don't mean the Basics), it's a small range but they seem great for awkward placements.

If you want hexes, I really think DMM Torque Nuts are the best ones available. I've got doubles in those.

Another fan of DMMs Torque nuts here too, they place easily and feel super bomber. Plus they are cheap for what they are imo

- if yr fairly new you should be climbing with experienced partners

- if yr partners are experienced they will have at least a single rack, if you have singles youll have a double rack between you

- out here in squamish most "modern" new climbers end up with a double rack

- however those who started or start with a single rack tend to be "better" climbers mentally IME ... bolder and more solid ... many a climber haul up doubles out of fear especially on moderates, they plug and play gear that is often not the best thinking they can get away with it because they have doubles

- those who climb with singles tend to place better individual pieces, place nuts very well ... and learn how to ration their gear by reading a route and looking ahead ...

- now there are places and climbs where doubles or even triples are needed ... but many a moderate here can be done with singles and nuts

- dont bother with tricams and hexes until you get alot more experience .... theyre more fiddly for the second to clean, more fiddly to place, and can rattle right out if you dont extend them long ... cams and nuts will be more beneficial generally .... now there are exceptions like limestone or other slick rock where they may be useful

- if you want hexes, buy em off some old geezer whos willing to sell em for very cheap

being able to ration your gear on a pitch and climb with confidence between spaced placements is a very important skill on longer climbs

remember that many of these lines were climbed for decades by tens of thousands of climbers who didnt have doubles in camalots ... and in shiet rubbah as to boot !!!

the modern climber, and im no exception, is a WUZZ in comparison

;)

This kinda makes me laugh. Sure I've got way too much gear and am a certified gear whore NOW, but when I first started I don't even know how long it took to build my rack. Cam by cam, biner by biner. Sale on mountaingear? Sweet add 2 cams!!

These days with backcountry and REI everyone buys full trad ice racks at the drop of a hat sometimes without even having led anything or based on some MP advice.

Not talking smack, just it's funny how things have changed.

Jonathan Dull wrote: Was there a particular area/routes you were planning on climbing? That would determine gear selection more precisely.

Mainly in the linville gorge. Possibly Jim Dandy, The Prow, The Daddy... Those are easier routes I've heard of, maybe others once I get a guidebook for the area/ more advice.