SCC Community Forum
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shannon stegg wrote:Wow, when the shoe is on the other foot, the faceless masses seam to change the topic mighty quick.?! My name is Wes, I'm one person, and I don't think I'm the one changing the topic. If you're asking me for evidence, you're asking the wrong guy. I'm not an SCC board member and I have no clue who sent what bolts to whom when. If you're asking Jason, he's not here. But you have his phone number. I can tell this is going nowhere fast, but let me just make sure I have this right... you won't tell me which of your routes at YB have been retro bolted until I tell you whether or not the SCC paid for the bolts on those routes...? Is that right? |
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No, that is not right, like I said in an earlier post, I saw only a few retro- bolts.I have been met with such anger and hate that I am afraid I will need help from locals like James Dobbs, and Greg Allen, and Stewart Coffield to make it even possible to accomplish this goal. I would love to climb with the young guys that took me to the side the night of the Huntsville meeting and thanked me for all the routes they had climbed of mine. There is a happy medium. |
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If I may interject.. |
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zekem wrote:^^what?Typical of the level of respect dished out by the SCC. "My name is Wes, I'm one person" |
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Ha! Best post of the day! It's like an insult wrapped up in a metaphor wrapped up in a joke. Well done. |
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wwes wrote:But Monkey Boy, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.Don't bet on it. |
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Dana Bartlett wrote: I don't know if this would surprise you, but that atmosphere is exactly what some people want in a climbing area.And people wonder why Ben doesn't want the SCC in his back yard. |
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I've been reading this thread for a few weeks now, and I attended the SCC meeting at SSA a few months ago. Admittedly, I'm not as privy to the issues as some, mostly because I haven't climbed at the main contentious areas (YB,deep creek). I've been an SCC member for several years and pretty much assumed, like alot of people it seems, that the coalition makes decisions with the best interests of southeastern climbers in mind. In recent years, and especially in light of the SCC meetings and MP dissent, I've come to realize that the umbrella term 'climbing' means different things to different people. Some want nothing more than to carry around a pad and chalk bucket and crush boulders, some want to hang draws sport climbing, some wanna plug gear and climb high, and of course there's the beloved gym climbers who rarely (if ever) touch rock. Some like it all. Whatever your fancy, I think we all owe each other respect and should not only appreciate the fact that we like different things, but embrace it. I see so much in-fighting and bickering that it takes away from the activity I love more than anything. If we can't come together and find a solution that works for everyone, what does that say about the climbing community and climbers in general? I'm not pointing fingers at anyone but myself really, because I've been as guilty as anyone in the past for bringing crowds to crags, over impacting areas and not having a better big picture view of what I do having an influence on the future of climbing. But that's the beauty of all this and an extension of the climbing metaphor that I can draw on virtually any aspect of life; things change, people can change, and whether you adapt or not can mean you keep going or bail (or worse). Ive had the pleasure of climbing with some of the 'old gaurd' like Shannon (only mention him BC hes already opined), and in my opinion they just want the established areas and ethics preserved. These guys knew years ago what was coming, that climbing is fucking awesome, and more and more people would get into it. I mean, who publishes a guide book hoping only a few people buy it? Should REI only sell you gear? I just remember one of the things that attracted me to climbing was the freedom and lack of some required license or course just to get out and rope up. But there's a critical limit to it all. With the growing numbers, we gotta find some common ground. |
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No Dana, I am not surprised. That is why we build climbing gyms, they are not to be confused. |
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Micheal's points are well taken. I do think there is some middle ground SOMEwhere. So with that said, where is the middle ground on the core issues?...which as I recall are as follows: |
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I was traditional climbing at Devil's Tower. We did Bon Homme, El Matador, and finished up Sunday on New Wave. This was all done on reconstructed feet by the way. We drove over to Franks and we were hungry. His servant (4 1/2ft Indian girl) is hand feeding the dirt bags eggs and bacon out of a plate. Then I had to take a hot one so I did what any real climber would do and go find the bathroom. I hobbled over and proceeded to do the deed. I put a few bucks in the donation bucket and sat down. I look up and noticed a few stickers in front of my face. This picture pretty much sums up this whole thread. |
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I apologize to the thousands of climbers who see this as a pissing contest. Even though when I finally whipped out my list, they are still keeping theirs zipped up, I fail to see why we can not be better stewards of our properties. Private or owned by us. For those who say it is all about ego, your wrong! I would of loved to see this been about preserving and protecting, but those two things might be a thing of the past here in the Southeast. |
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Can someone point me to the list? I've yet to see a list other than Paul's very informative list of routes at Steele. |
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shannon stegg wrote: I apologize to the thousands of climbers who see this as a pissing contest. Even though when I finally whipped out my list, they are still keeping theirs zipped up, I fail to see why we can not be better stewards of our properties. Private or owned by us. For those who say it is all about ego, your wrong! I would of loved to see this been about preserving and protecting, but those two things might be a thing of the past here in the Southeast.Thanks, Shannon. While I care about retro-bolting, I am much more concerned about the deeper issues of preserving and protecting. If we can (mostly) agree on what it means to be good stewards that would go a long way to sorting out the questions related to specific routes and climbing areas. |
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It seems most people, myself included, have expressed that they would like to see term limits implemented for SCC personnel. As far as posting rules and ethics at crags, I think that's a good idea. A lot of places already have that kind of thing. The problem is really enforcement; it's kind of an honor system, unless you consider ostracization fair punishment. I would agree with your trespassing beef. I don't know specifically what you're referring to, but I think the obvious solution is just not to publicly display your trespasses. The fact that this is one of the issues is pretty sad- the solution could not be easier- it's a matter of less effort; You don't have to do anything extra to not post pictures of trespassing, you do less. I don't know the person involved, but as a matter of principle, he or she should step down and set an example *if what you'e referring to is as black and white as "heres a picture of me, mr/ms SCC board member, climbing this route on private property". I think people's respect for someone increases exponentially when you're able to say 'hey I was wrong, my bad' rather than hunker down from a position of stubborn pride. Besides, as a board member of an organization like the SCC, your job should always be to act in the best interest of those you represent and advocate for. It seems to me that after reading all this, lots of people think that the higher-ups are just self-serving. I don't know, but I do know we live in a world where perception is (sadly) just about everything. Once you cross the line of trust, especially with someone's donated money, there's really no going back. |
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Paul: |
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Rhett Burroughs wrote:This crap is one of the reasons why I moved out West.Cool story Rhett. But wait, did you move out West? |
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Nah he just listed a bunch of routes in WYOMING and a picture of him climbing at Devils Tower, which happens to be in WYOMING, which happens to be in the WEST. |
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On point No. 1 regarding the fixed anchor policy...if they never get added where they shouldn't, removal of them will be a non-issue. Cleaning up what exists currently will be dirty business. We've proven that here if nothing else. |
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DavisMeschke wrote:Nah he just listed a bunch of routes in WYOMING and a picture of him climbing at Devils Tower, which happens to be in WYOMING, which happens to be in the WEST.Thanks for clearing that up Davis. I'm not sure how I missed it, especially since Rhett's entire contribution to this thread and the last has been to repeatedly tell us that he's moving out West and how much better it is and to share pictures of stickers he found in an outhouse. Are all trad climbers too dense to get jokes? No wonder you're all so pissed. |