Quickdraws stolen off overboard at Smith

Micah Klesick wrote: No no no no no no !!!!! I hope you're joking...

Joking? wouldn't dream of it. Love me some glue-ins

For real, it always surprises me when people leave there s*^# all over and freak out when it turns up missing. I personally would not take draws from a climb, but think it is a great service when someone else cleans them up!!!

As I have always though, pack it in pack it out, Im sure the guy who took the draws was pissed to have to deal with them and took them as payment, sounds logical to me.

I'm a tradster and am constantly amazed at people spouting off high climbing grades acting like they are the shit, when in reality they mean "I can climb 2.12 bolt to bolt then practice for days and finally get it, a huge joke to me. I can put most of you high grade sport climbers on a 5.9+ that would make you puke. Get over it, take your draws home, or risk them getting stolen.

Matt Baker wrote:For real, it always surprises me when people leave there s*^# all over and freak out when it turns up missing. I personally would not take draws from a climb, but think it is a great service when someone else cleans them up!!! As I have always though, pack it in pack it out, Im sure the guy who took the draws was pissed to have to deal with them and took them as payment, sounds logical to me. I'm a tradster and am constantly amazed at people spouting off high climbing grades acting like they are the shit, when in reality they mean "I can climb 2.12 bolt to bolt then practice for days and finally get it, a huge joke to me. I can put most of you high grade sport climbers on a 5.9+ that would make you puke. Get over it, take your draws home, or risk them getting stolen.

Damn homie, you're hard as nails. Sure glad there's traddy ppl like you around to teach those wimpy sportos not to leave their quickdraws up at the cough* sport crag.

Just saying it's pretty funny, thats all:) Different strokes for different folks, keep it real!

Matt Baker wrote:Just saying it's pretty funny, thats all:) Different strokes for different folks, keep it real!

That being said, you're kinda right :p, I probably wouldn't risk leaving my draws up overnight on a route that sees that much traffic... Still think the guy that took them should make an effort to give em back to the owner. It ain't a 'public service' as some are suggesting if you keep the draws.

I was out at the crag the other day and guess what!?!? Yep someone left their bolts all over the wall! My lucky day I took out my wrench and got at least 50 of em. Suckers shouldn't leave that crap junkin up the wall........

I have been in this game for awhile and have ethics inline with my tradition that enable me to climb the shit I love to climb.

Crags basically developed as practice rock for the mountains, kind of like gyms for sport climbers. (All Im saying is that that crags aren't just for sport climbers.) Generally crags share both sport and traditional lines. There is a yin and a yang that coexist pushing on one another. Sometimes we piss each other off but in general a balance is found.

This whole thread is just that. Yes, perma-draws will exist for those who like to hang on ropes, rehearsing tendon popping moves. When someone decides to push it a little and leave their draws on something easy, they get cleaned up. Thats what happens, go ahead and test it, Its pretty simple.

Nice edit(s)

I'm sorry that the OP is naive enough to think that he has absolute reign over the route. If you can't take the time or energy to clean up your mess then you're subject to the whims of others. Don't blame others for the simple fact you were unwilling to remove YOUR PROPERTY off of a very popular climb at a public park.

This isn't your town gym where your membership gives you special rights.

So...it has been six days since Daniel Gurule's (541)213-1074 rack of draws went missing. Have the draws been returned, located, reappeared?? Just curious regarding the "ying" and "yang" of crag politics.
Regardless of which side of the fence you reside on in this "debate" Ithere's some BAD KARMA on someone.

Matt Baker wrote:I have been in this game for awhile and have ethics inline with my tradition that enable me to climb the shit I love to climb. Crags basically developed as practice rock for the mountains, kind of like gyms for sport climbers. (All Im saying is that that crags aren't just for sport climbers.) Generally crags share both sport and traditional lines. There is a yin and a yang that coexist pushing on one another. Sometimes we piss each other off but in general a balance is found. This whole thread is just that. Yes, perma-draws will exist for those who like to hang on ropes, rehearsing tendon popping moves. When someone decides to push it a little and leave their draws on something easy, they get cleaned up. Thats what happens, go ahead and test it, Its pretty simple.

This is total BS.
What traditional mountaineering ethics say it's ok to steal from other climbers?
Just find me one citation where Messner says stealing is cool.
Or Robbins. Or Preuss or Bonatti or anybody.

Project draws are stolen by thieves, the clueless, or by envious low end trad wannabes who justify themselves by false appeals to ethics. They rarely get returned, since anybody low enough to take them in the first place isn't likely to suddenly become a better person.

Matt Baker wrote:I can put most of you high grade sport climbers on a 5.9+ that would make you puke....

ummm, like which one cowboy?

slim wrote: ummm, like which one cowboy?

haha anything by Layton Kor.

This is MP's version of Godwin's law, the more pages pile up, the higher the probability somebody will trot out the "Sharma would freak out on my 5.9 trad" argument..

Matt Baker wrote: I'm a tradster and am constantly amazed at people spouting off high climbing grades acting like they are the shit, when in reality they mean "I can climb 2.12 bolt to bolt then practice for days and finally get it, a huge joke to me. I can put most of you high grade sport climbers on a 5.9+ that would make you puke. Get over it, take your draws home, or risk them getting stolen.

I've done just that before, going bolt to bolt because a route was difficult for me and rehearsed it on top rope. Never heard of trying to project something before? I swear I've seen a lot of professional "tradsters" do the same thing. Aiding up routes with their gear so they can top rope and rehearse hard sections of the route...I think Tommy and Jorgeson have also rapped from top of El Cap to rehearse certain pitches. Should they also go home with their draws and tradster gear?

BTW I place gear too

While it's no surprise that these quickdraws grew legs. It's still an ass move to 5 finger the gear. I am kind of in the middle and believe both parties fouled up to some degree. No preaching here as the lessons seem rather obvious for the OP. Lost gear should serve to enhance this education.

Mark E Dixon wrote: This is total BS. What traditional mountaineering ethics say it's ok to steal from other climbers? Just find me one citation where Messner says stealing is cool. Or Robbins. Or Preuss or Bonatti or anybody. Project draws are stolen by thieves, the clueless, or by envious low end trad wannabes who justify themselves by false appeals to ethics. They rarely get returned, since anybody low enough to take them in the first place isn't likely to suddenly become a better person.

I haven't wished for a like button on this site... Till I read this comment...

Matt Baker wrote:I can put most of you high grade sport climbers on a 5.9+ that would make you puke. Get over it, take your draws home, or risk them getting stolen.

I'm not quite sure how to take this. Should I be offended by the immature attitude that people who climb harder numbers hold the moral high ground, or entertained by the fact that he thinks climbing 5.9 trad puts him in the elite levels of the sport?

I am not tooting my own horn on how bad ass 5.9+ is, I'm not.

Just throwing out the famous old 5.9+ rating to say grades are all over the place, especially when you go to crags like vedauwoo, the south platte or at altitude.

Ok I just remembered one i've done to quote. How about the Steck Salathe 5.9? If you just read the rating you think one thing then get on the route and you realize another. Great route, climbed it clean and I wouldn't change the rating, I love to getting schooled.

Comparing grades is not that simple and is one of the problems between comparing sport climbs and trad climbs. Different beasts

Matt Baker wrote:I am not tooting my own horn on how bad ass 5.9+ is, I'm not. Just throwing out the famous old 5.9+ rating to say grades are all over the place, especially when you go to crags like vedauwoo, the south platte or at altitude. Ok I just remembered one i've done to quote. How about the Steck Salathe 5.9? If you just read the rating you think one thing then get on the route and you realize another. Great route, climbed it clean and I wouldn't change the rating, I love to getting schooled. Comparing grades is not that simple and is one of the problems between comparing sport climbs and trad climbs. Different beasts

Great...so you're delusional about the difficulty of SS and about how stealing is logical.