SCC Community Forum

Sorry, can not give History lessons to nameless faces. Here is one though that does not touch my ego. Fox Mountain Guides retro bolts The Unnamed at Old Bald. A bold old school lead done ground up on site by Diff Richie an iconic pioneer of early test pieces like Double Dihedrals. Word I got from a local climber who lives in Highlands was that when Mr. Jeff Diff Richie was asked if it could be bolted, he said no way, yet it got bolted anyway. This little History lesson brought to you by the State that claims to be the purest in the land.

How can you ask if you should give examples and then say that you won't? You're a bigger tease than that chick I met in the strip club the other night........

Here is a good History lesson for Dr. Whomever. Jim Corbet finds new crag in Northeast Georgia called Burnett Point and starts and finishes several new lines. When he finds evidence of prior ascents(There was no bolts at this time)he does his research and no climbs are altered or renamed. As a matter of fact, We joined forces and put up several more good lines there. I do see how some ones ego could force you in a different direction though.

What is this thread about?

I've been trying to sort through it from the beginning, Rhett. It's really hard to tell. Started out about some secret SCC meeting with a bunch of arguing about ethics. I think?

It started out as a few concerned folk attempting to point out where they thought the SCC had gone astray in an email thread last winter. This resulted in a private meeting where a lot of posturing and grandstanding took place and no action items resulted. Then as these transgressions began to be tried in the court of public opinion (here) the SCC became more interested in a dialogue.

So a public meeting was held at Stone Summit. Some progress was made (see top of thread).

A second meeting was held in Hunstville at which point things seemed to go backwards. Hurt feelings, bruised egos, secret lists, stonewalling, no actions...still.

Since then new information has come forth that has yet to be acted upon as far as I know. Everyone seems firmly entrenched in their positions at this point.

The SCC seems to have decided to make their stand at Yellow Bluff, while the "vocal minority" as it has been deemed, seems to be making it's stand at Steele...which nobody wants to talk about here after my last post. (see video)

This is not a complete synopsis...but it's all I have time for at the moment.

Carry on.

Let me see if I have this straight. We have a group with a bunch of "behind the scenes" activities making decisions to represent an entire community with little say from that community. Resulting in a standoff in which essentially no movement is made by either side?

That sounds productive.....

Mr. Monkey Boy. you are young enough to get a glimpse of the future direction of our beloved sport, rather than a History lesson. Imagine dogs, trash, parking issues, permadraws, chains, crowds, cue lines, loud music, beaten down trails and foliage, large groups, and a cliff line that more resembles a gym rather than the place that lured us here in the first place.

Hey Rhett, how is life out West? I thought this thread was about preserving History, and the LNT ethic, but I could be wrong.

shannon stegg wrote:Mr. Monkey Boy. you are young enough to get a glimpse of the future direction of our beloved sport, rather than a History lesson. Imagine dogs, trash, parking issues, permadraws, chains, crowds, cue lines, loud music, beaten down trails and foliage, large groups, and a cliff line that more resembles a gym rather than the place that lured us here in the first place.

That's why I felt compelled to come to the Huntsville meeting. I hoped that the things you mention were not creeping their way into Alabama. I hoped the SCC would take a stance on those issues.

They have not. But, they still have time for Pint Nights, Movie Nights, and Area Representative solicitation.

zekem wrote:Let me see if I have this straight. We have a group with a bunch of "behind the scenes" activities making decisions to represent an entire community with little say from that community. Resulting in a standoff in which essentially no movement is made by either side? That sounds productive.....

Productive? The SCC cares very little about the opinion of some of the people they solicit money, time, and land from. They'll hold "community meetings" to make it look like they are concerned, or feel good events. But nothing worthwhile will come from either of them. Meanwhile, their own landtrust properties are getting abused.

"Productive? The SCC cares very little about the opinion of some of the people they solicit money, time, and land from. They'll hold "community meetings" to make it look like they are concerned, or feel good events. But nothing worthwhile will come from either of them. Meanwhile, their own landtrust properties are getting abused."

That's very disturbing to hear. What a waste of what could be such a valuable asset to the climbing community.

Having climbed in many states, I have to say the leave no trace ethic needs to be preserved and fostered.

History does matter. retro bolts are uncool , with out the exlplicit permission of the FA party.

Shannon is a good man, retros on his routes should go.

this problem continues to stem from the lack of available info on the formative years of north carolina outside a few individuals...resulting in people thinking they are doing FA's or really not caring about the history or the rock because there isnt as much documented as there is in other locations. like all things important knowledge takes effort and in todays day and age of instant gratification, if the knowledge isnt out there the end result is whats happening. I've mentioned this before in other "ethics" thread regarding the SE. I mean lets not forget the 5.7 FA that was just a retrobolt of an approach pitch at the bald last year/two years ago now?

But i dont climb anymore.

I am the Old Guard, I have volunteered time and money, I have been cleaning up messes from Douche Bags for a long time now. I have been told by Mr. Taipan Jam that I could be charged criminally for removing bolts on my routes, but that would not be the first time a local access committee has decided to vote on having me arrested. Do your research so I nor anyone else has to hear you whine.

Here is what I don't understand. Why, in this day and age, isn't there a documented list of routes available on SCC property? The SCC should have a guide to each one of their properties with every route, the rating and the FA. It's not that hard to compile that and have it available. Then it would be possible for discussion if there is any sort of debate on whether a route has been retro bolted or a FA was made by a different party etc etc.

Part of maintaining the SCC lands should be knowing what routes exists and the history of. Then individuals will know if they are climbing some pre existing trad climb and not just guessing it's something new.

Hell, if you take pictures of the routes and add a little beta you could sell the damn guides as a fundraising opportunity.

Shit needs to be documented and in this day and age it's not that hard to do so.

Douche wrote:Isn't the SCC a volunteer organization? Why don't you guys put in some hours doing all of the things you feel they aren't doing instead of just whining about it? When did the "Old Guard", as I have seen it termed, start spending more time complaining on line and not just out fixing things? If something has been confirmed a retro, remove the gear. The history issue seems to be on you, can't complain that people don't know it if you haven't told anyone.

Classic example of barking up the wrong tree.

#1 Amongst us whiners are thousands of hours and thousands of dollars in donated resources throughout the years.
After the first "secret meeting", I speculate that I saw ten of thousands of future contributions walk out the door.
Since then, more people are taking a step back.
Shannon has installed hundreds, if not thousands, of pieces of high quality stainless hardware.
And all throughout the SE on classics, crag routes, aid lines....everything.
All on his own dime.
So, mmyeah.

#2 The majority of us "Olde Guarde" have been "fixing things" while all this talk is going on....
But, that's really more an ongoing process than anything else.
We've left Yellow Bluff to that "community" based on their passionate defense of "convenience"...
And the fact that YB is owned by the SCC...
Who should be the one's to deal with it in the first place.

Meanwhile, at other places in Alabama, they're not only stonewalling, but they have the help of their Area Reps and the MP Admin.
Knowingly leaving private property routes posted, where they could easily be taken down, (perhaps copied to another media) while people get their minds right about the issue.
By all appearances, the lack of action, seems to be sanctioning climbing on that private property, next door to SCCLT-owned assets.
In the SouthEast.....
A place where that sort of activity is probably as caustic as anywhere in the US.
"Southeastern" Climbers Coalition...
The irony.

And, Rob....
That was pretty funny.
#HPSC
#OldeGuarde
#SportClimbingIsNeither

zekem wrote:Here is what I don't understand. Why, in this day and age, isn't there a documented list of routes available on SCC property? The SCC should have a guide to each one of their properties with every route, the rating and the FA. It's not that hard to compile that and have it available. Then it would be possible for discussion if there is any sort of debate on whether a route has been retro bolted or a FA was made by a different party etc etc. Part of maintaining the SCC lands should be knowing what routes exists and the history of. Then individuals will know if they are climbing some pre existing trad climb and not just guessing it's something new. Hell, if you take pictures of the routes and add a little beta you could sell the damn guides as a fundraising opportunity. Shit needs to be documented and in this day and age it's not that hard to do so.

Good points!
You'd think a paid SCC employee could generate a spreadsheet.....
Do some interviews....
Maybe even "fundraise" in the process.
Instead, there's an errant FB post for Pint Nights or Traildays every once in a while.
Yippie!

zekem wrote: Why, in this day and age, isn't there a documented list of routes available on SCC property? The SCC should have a guide to each one of their properties with every route, the rating and the FA. It's not that hard to compile that and have it available.

Especially when it is NOT an all volunteer org. At least one person has a full time paid position at the SCC. Watford, Averbeck, and the people of Mountain Project have pretty much done all the work. Building and maintaining a spreadsheet is taught in high school nowadays. It's not very hard. See mine in the Steele comments section.

But this, and any other, suggestions made here are currently viewed as "squabbling", or an "elaborate troll", or just the views of the "vocal minority". Any and every excuse to cited to ignore what is discussed here. It's a bit pretentious of them if ya ask me.

It's not that hard. And it wouldn't take long to get a list compiled. Start with one crag and make a spreadsheet. Then make that spreadsheet available to the public so that input on routes can be made. Such as "so and so climbed that in 95" blah blah blah.

It would take a while to get all the history sorted out. But that's part of it. Part of the responsibility of maintaining the land. Just like any company has to take inventory of their property. The SCC needs to inventory their crags.

You can't just open a piece of land to the public and expect them to govern themselves.

zekem wrote:You can't just open a piece of land to the public and expect them to govern themselves.

Right on, Zeke.
"Wilderness Socialism".
It's got to go!