Passing Etiquette

I had an interesting encounter yesterday and I'd be interested to know people's thoughts.

A buddy of mine and I climbed the Bastille Crack midday. Looking up, we saw one other slow moving party on the first belay (the bolted one) with the leader just starting the second pitch. I figured I'd climb up, check in with the climbers ahead of us and see if we could pass as it's a route I've done probably 50 times and knew we would be moving quickly. Upon getting to the 1st belay ledge, I spoke briefly with the belayer and she agreed it would be best to let us pass but we should wait until the start of the third pitch. I agreed as her leader had just finished the second pitch and she was beginning to climb and I still needed to belay my partner up. Overall, a very respectful and amiable conversation that resulted in what I think was a very reasonable decision for all parties.

We caught them pretty quickly at the third belay ledge and they were happy to let us pass and hang out for 10 minutes while we hustled past. All good. I belayed my partner to the top of the 3rd pitch and began leading the 4th pitch. This is where it got interesting.

Upon pulling up to the final slab before the roughly 10 foot chimney to the summit I encountered another climber hanging from a gear anchor in the middle of the slab (about 20-25 feet below the summit). I asked her what was going on and if she knew that her belay was set about 20 feet from the summit. She told me it was her first time in Eldo, she didn't really know what was going on, and that her partner had dropped his ATC and was working on building a munter to belay her up. I asked if she minded if I climbed past her assuring her I would be very quick and stay out of her rope line. I was not all that comfortable standing on that slab indefinitely while her friend (who also placed at least 8 pieces in the final 20 feet) attempted to figure out how to build a munter. Based on the little information I had, I wasn't confident this was going to be resolved quickly. She reluctantly agreed saying it was fine as long as I stayed clear of her rope line but she was not overly comfortable with the decision. I climbed up to the chimney placing a piece far out left to ensure that my rope did not cross hers. As I entered the final chimney, she started yelling that I needed to wait and she didn't want me to climb anymore. At this point, I was about 6 feet from the summit in an awkward position so I finished the chimney and built an anchor just below the summit.

About 10 minutes later her partner yells, "On belay!" and she begins to climb. As she is topping out she looks back down into the alcove I was belaying in and directed some obscenities at me. I ignored it thinking if she didn't have a safety issue (which she didn't and never claimed to have one) that she was just some girl who was pissed off and likely in over her head. About 5 minutes later her partner poked his head down and started giving me a lecture about passing.

Part of me felt bad for him because he probably felt obligated to say something despite having no idea what had happened. Further, he was the reason she was left stranded in the middle of the pitch with no idea of where and when she would be able to move. Anyways, I asked him if he was concerned about her safety and assured him there was absolutely no safety concern as a result of me passing. He agreed but said, "She had to climb the chimney with my rope near her and I should have been more considerate so she could have had a pleasant experience." I basically replied that if its not a safety issue and you're setting up random belays on the most popular climb in Colorado midday, that I wasn't going to apologize for her having to climb near my rope.

Am I the jerk? Are they completely wrong? Troll away MP...

My thoughts are:

She told you that you could pass, therefore you were technically in the clear.

However, when I'm passing parties, I try to do it via a variation if possible. This makes for less clusterfuck, or potential delay of the party being passed (waiting for you to finish).

There are several variations to finish the Bastille and if you had just taken one of those, you could have avoided the entire situation. You would have been able to finish the route quickly, and she would have felt less uncomfortable. And everyone would have had a lovely day!

If your version is right (what's her side?) then I'd say you were fine. She said you could go by and you did. Once she says it's ok and you start climbing there's really no changing her mind.

But it's one of the most popular routes in the country...what did you expect?

She really didn't realize that part of one's first experience in Eldo on the Bastille Crack is the possibility of being passed by either roped climbers or even free soloists. I remember this crazy, mustached guy straight out of the '70s downclimbing past me once on pitch 2 of that route. That opened my eyes a lot! People were doing all sorts of stuff in this place.

Yeah, when you pass people they just aren't always going to be cool about it. I guess that's the way it is. I prefer passing on slabs where there's no bottleneck.

So you're a local and have climbed the BC a bunch. It's just another good route in Eldo, to you. To them it's a new and amazing classic route that they probably were very excited about. Now if they knew Eldo even a little, they'd have known the BC is very easy to access and so usually super crowded. That you can't take your time on it and certainly won't feel alone. But how could they have known, as they'd never been before?

So from your point of view, you're getting some quick miles in on a route you know well. Someone got jammed up by losing a belay device, and you don't want to wait so you'll just squeeze by and get it done. Sounds fair enough.

Conversely, they have not only had an issue with lost gear and are in a bit of a bind, but now they're being crowded by another party and made to feel like they're really getting in the way. All they wanted to do was to come enjoy a classic moderate climb.

In your position, I'd have asked if I could climb past but offered to take *her* belay device up to her partner, so he wouldn't have to mess around with a munter. Now you're not the impatient local ruining their experience. Instead you're the experienced local who's helping them out of a jam. Everyone wins.

" Instead you're the experienced local who's helping them out of a jam."

+1 The help might be refused. But the offer would likely be meaningful.

She said "yes" to passing. Turns out she's another overly sensitive climber. Yelling obscenities down the last 20 ft of
A climb is more lame than any pass. And who gets weird about climbing "close" to another rope? Go to The valley and watch how fast the guides climb classics like Nutcracker. If you don't let them pass you're the ass! Slow groups should expect to get passed as it's poor practice to slug your way up a high traffic line. If what you described really ruined their experience they should choose another sport...or climb something obscure.

Carrying up the belay device is a great idea though. Hindsight being 20/20.

I was wondering the same thing. Did you offer to get a belay device to the partner?

At the risk of sounding terse- If I come upon a slower party, it is not a matter of if I'm passing, but when. The transpositive is also true. When executed properly, everyone benefits.

Stephen...I agree. Also etiquette...yet rarely executed is driving SLOW in the left (fast) lane. Some people truly feel they are entitled to drive 60 mph in the fast lane when others need and want to pass. There's no reason not to gtf over to the right and let people be on their way. There's 5 lanes people and it's illegal to pass on the right. You're not being "terse" you're being practical. 👏

SRB25 wrote:Stephen...I agree. Also etiquette...yet rarely executed is driving SLOW in the left (fast) lane. Some people truly feel they are entitled to drive 60 mph in the fast lane when others need and want to pass. There's no reason not to gtf over to the right and let people be on their way. There's 5 lanes people and it's illegal to pass on the right. You're not being "terse" you're being practical. 👏

Tangent: what means are appropriate for convincing slow drivers to use the "slow driver pullouts" on mountain roads. Sometimes no matter how much you close you follow they don't get the idea that the "slow drivers use pullouts" signs are talking about them.

I think it helps if you offer something in return. I passed a party on Yellow Spur by telling them I'd show them the way. She was obviously uncomfortable but you might of been able to ease that by saying you'd check there set up or something. Of course someone got pissed when I passed them on The Bomb but as soon as they said "yeah I guess" to the question of passing I jumped in front of them even though the end of the sentence was "if you want to be rude". Some people don't know how to deal with their anxiety because they don't climb all that much. You mostly find them on classic easy routes such as Bastille Crack. Consider it a teachable moment for them.

This is definitely a tricky situation. There have been plenty of times (especially in Eldo) where I find myself stuck behind some jabroni fumbling with gear, scooting up the wall at a glacial pace. The only thing I've found that works in these situations is to take a moment, close my eyes and breath in deeply. Then, in the stillness of the beauty that is Edorado Canyon, I sing a song that takes me to a better place, a better time....I just, I wanna go...So what'd you say? When you gonna let me know if you give a damn about me....?

‘Cause you got my hands tied
In my defense
I always fall for confidence
And your compliments look good on me

Cause nobody knows it better
than the girl in the corner with the scarlet letter
And while you're watching you may think that she
doesn't matter
But no one knows you better

I wanna dance
I wanna dance
I wanna dance with you
So take a chance
take a chance

Oh yeah

I need a sign or a signal
I've overthought everything
I can think of Into symbol
I need the coat and your jacket
And the remnants of your cigarette packet

I wanna go
So what'd you say
When you gonna let me know
If you give a damn about me

‘Cause you got my hands tied
In my defense
I always fall for confidence
And your compliments look good on me

Cause nobody knows it better
than the girl in the corner with the scarlet letter
and while you're watching you think that she doesn't matter
but no one knows you better

I wanna dance
I wanna dance
I wanna dance with you
So take a chance
take a chance
...

Now that you're mind is clear, you don't need to try. Stick that heal hook and and let 'er fly.

George Perkins wrote:At risk of sounding elitist, the Bastille Crack IS the slow lane. To be practical, if you're a speed demon, avoid it during rush hours or climb something as rad as you are. If you tailgate, honk your horn, flip them off, then pass them on the shoulder.., you're the jerk. (Not to say that's what happened in the case the OP describes) If you've got a reason to be in a hurry (North chimney approach to the diamond, or Petit Grepon, with daily thunderstorms likely), then it's excusable. Midday in Eldo, not so much. We were all beginners once. If you're going to climb an easier classic route, expect to interact with beginners, for whom this might be their hardest and most challenging climb they've ever tried. Try to help, encourage, and support them, rather than intimidate them and make them feel slow and incompetent (they already know). That doesn't mean "don't pass", but just be aware of what the climb might be for them.

This exactly. If you are that rad, climb something harder with no line. If you've climbed the Bastille 50 times and there are multiple parties on it that look like they are moving slow, you are a total douche for going up if your intention is to pass all of them. The Bastille is not the Nose in a day - it isn't your only option, and it isn't a megaclassic testpiece that you'll be freeing while the noobs stand in aiders gazing at you in awe. You are being the huge kid who shaves that failed 6th grade a few times that is crushing kids 3 years younger than him on the football field.

TheBirdman wrote: I asked her what was going on and if she knew that her belay was set about 20 feet from the summit. She told me it was her first time in Eldo, she didn't really know what was going on, and that her partner had dropped his ATC and was working on building a munter to belay her up.

Also at the risk of sounding elitist, if you have to "work on building a Munter", something that should take 15 seconds max, you do not belong on a multi pitch of any grade.

Nathan...I didn't suggest trying to convince drivers to move. Even though the state posts big signs clear as day "slower traffic keep right".

Some People do what they want without being aware or giving a shit about the rest. The driver in the fast lane typically gives the finger and says "I'm driving the speed limit asshole!" In some states the right lane has become the fast lane. Just head right and go around. In Europe if you're approaching someone in the fast lane it's rare to get within a quarter mile before they move to the right to let you pass. But euros are drivers where Americans are commuters.

There is a certain amount of responsibility one assumes when getting into a car Or starting up a route to know when it's time to concede and say "would you like to pass? We are slow today!" Or "sure you can pass!" The OP seemed to be diplomatic in his approach. Certainly not warranting some rag to yell from above. Maybe he's leaving out some details. I've offered groups to pass and I've said "of course" when asked by those I already knew were faster, from two pitches away. It's awareness!

Yes, what magpie said.

Pretty lame to go up there and push past parties since you have been up there 50 times. Feeding your ego a bit or showing your partner how cool you are I suppose since it sounds like you lead everything. Showing off for someone? Go up Wide Country or North West Corner if you must climb the Bastille.

Lol ^^^

Birdman, she was 25 feet from the top. Throw a piece in, hang on it and chill for 10 minutes while they get their stuff sorted out. I think that passing in this situation was inconsiderate. It's not that you created a dangerous situation. It's that your lack of consideration was a gesture of bad will that will leave a bad impression with these people for a long time. It's just so indicative of our society these days where people only care about themselves and what they want and they want it right now.

Pure Alpine wrote:My thoughts are: She told you that you could pass, therefore you were technically in the clear. However, when I'm passing parties, I try to do it via a variation if possible. This makes for less clusterfuck, or potential delay of the party being passed (waiting for you to finish). There are several variations to finish the Bastille and if you had just taken one of those, you could have avoided the entire situation. You would have been able to finish the route quickly, and she would have felt less uncomfortable. And everyone would have had a lovely day!

This is great advice especially for a route like Bastille...

If she had refused and there was no other var, would the faster party have been cool with waiting?