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Fire Rescue/Evac equipment

Original Post
aloo moroz · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

First things first: I am not a climber,or know much about climbing I am trying to learn the basics right now.

I live on a third flour of a multi apartment building (25feet of the ground),and as one way for fire escape I use a rescue ladder like x-itproducts.com/ there are a number of companies who make similar products - basically a drop ladder from a window,which you can use to climb down.

However, if a person uses it there is IMHO a risk of slipping and falling, thus I am looking at a backup rope solution. Which will hold a person and not allow him/her to fall to the ground. I wanna come up with a simplest and cheapest way of accomplishing that task,but still being safe.

The users of this system will have ZERO experience with climbing and will be under stress evacuating from the fire so,the solution should be "idiot proof".

Here is what I am looking at: sterlingrope.com/c/rescue_s…
a 30 feet of rope can be gotten for 20 bucks. Now do I need static or dynamic one, to handle/absorb the fall?

ropeandrescue.com/cyber-mon…

Prusic cord to make a fall arrestor, will it work if I am not using anything else,like a rescue-8 to rapel ?

Climbing harness
amazon.com/gp/product/B000P…

I plan to have the whole thing set up and ready to go: anchored rope,prusic,carabiners,etc.. putting it on should not take more than 1-2 minutes,what do u think?

I am looking for advice,criticism of the setup,again this is one-time-use item to be used only in emergency, will it work? Can it be made better,cheaper,simpler,to accomplish same goal?

Thank you for your help, I apologize in advance of the question seems silly or in wrong forum.

Scott O · · Anchorage · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 70
The users of this system will have ZERO experience with climbing and will be under stress evacuating from the fire

This has bad idea written all over it.
mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41

If the person using this system has zero experience with this sort of thing and is under stress, then that person is almost certainly going to make a mistake in using the backup rope system, and is going to end up stuck half way down unable to get to the ground. Sure, there's a chance that they will slip and fall using the drop ladder, but that's better than being tied to the side of a burning building, IMHO.

If you're really worried about a fire in your building, practice using the escape ladder with a safety backup until you're confident you can get down without slipping and falling. Don't waste time with a harness and other equipment when you're trying to get away from a fire.

johnnyrig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 105

Don't complicate the process. The only thing remotely idiot-proof would be the kind of autobelay found in a climbing gym setting, which is WAAAY outside your budget. Even then, dealing with mounting it, putting on a harness, and correctly attaching it in addition to dealing with the ladder thing...

Sounds like a guaranteed clusterf**k. Stick with the ladder. Learn how to not fall off it.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

I agree with the above - The added complexity will likely add more risk than it mitigates. The chances are the system will be miss-used in a high stress situation.

I could easily foresee someone trying to climb down a ladder with a prusik on a safety line and panicking when the prusik locks and they can't get down. Now they're stuck and can't get down and they're blocking anyone else from getting down too. I've seen this happen with an inexperienced climber on rappel.

The other side of that is that you're actually increasing the risk of them falling and the time it takes for egress because they have to continuously fiddle with the prusik the whole way down.

What your looking for does exist though, it is not in the climbing world, but rather in used industry for working at height. Look into Mobile Fall Arest devices, such as the Petzl ASAP. Even with such a device, I don't think the benefits outweigh the added risk in an emergency situation.

aloo moroz · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

Thank you for comments, does the prusic needs constant fiddling with,while going down? It was my understanding that it locks up if there is a fall,but otherwise just slides with u?

H.. · · Washingtonville NY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 45

Have
This belt

and this on one of your belt loops

And carry rope on your back at all times. Then you'll be ready anywhere that you can tie the rope to something sturdy.

Edit: Or ditch the ATC, and just use a biner and a munter.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
H.. wrote:Have This belt and this on one of your belt loops And carry rope on your back at all times. Then you'll be ready anywhere that you can tie the rope to something sturdy. Edit: Or ditch the ATC, and just use a biner and a munter.
Recall that the OP wrote:
"The users of this system will have ZERO experience with climbing and will be under stress evacuating from the fire so,the solution should be "idiot proof". "

What you suggest is hardly idiot proof and inappropriate for the same reasons others nixed the original idea.
aloo moroz · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0
H.. wrote:Have This belt and this on one of your belt loops And carry rope on your back at all times. Then you'll be ready anywhere that you can tie the rope to something sturdy. Edit: Or ditch the ATC, and just use a biner and a munter.
Yes this is a more general survival setup. My question involved a very limited use of rope just as a backup device,and not for general rappelling.
Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

A prusik bights onto the rope when force is placed on the loop extending from it. It needs to be moved by pushing the hitch along the rope while the loop is unweighted. If it becomes weighted, the hitch should tighten around the rope*. It can be tough to get it to slide again after the load is removed.

  • It's important to have the right ratio of cord diameter to rope diameter and right number of wraps to have it lock up. 5-6mm with about 3 wraps works well on most climbing ropes. Also, if the prusik becomes too loose around the rope, there won't be any friction to make it bind when it is loaded.
matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155

trampoline at the bottom?

In an emergency situation I would really not use a rope back-up. Even with some experience this would likely take to long. Maybe instead have everyone practice, then in an emergency situation there would be less likely to fall.

I you really insist having a safely device, you might want to consider a via ferrata set up clipping the large carabiners to the ladder runs as you go down.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_f…

johnnyrig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 105
John Badila · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 15

The autobelay setup would be expensive and it requires a climbing harness, but on the plus side, you wouldn't really need the ladder--just clip in and jump off the balcony, if you trust that you set it up right. I don't think this is really a serious option, though. I've seen one of those setups drop someone about ten feet before suddenly locking up in a very hard catch. It turned out something was adjusted wrong and it was easily fixed, but I still avoid those systems.

matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155

just saw this on another site. It might be what you are looking for
youtube.com/watch?v=sainfH_…

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
John Badila wrote:The autobelay setup would be expensive and it requires a climbing harness, but on the plus side, you wouldn't really need the ladder--just clip in and jump off the balcony, if you trust that you set it up right. I don't think this is really a serious option, though. I've seen one of those setups drop someone about ten feet before suddenly locking up in a very hard catch. It turned out something was adjusted wrong and it was easily fixed, but I still avoid those systems.
If you had the money to buy an auto belay you could probably pull out the slack wrap it around yourself and clip the biner to the rope so that it was girth hitched to you and it would most likely not go over your arms while it was lowering you. Probably find a waist only harness that would clip around a person and auto tighten also. Remember leg straps are not really needed on a harness so you can remove them to make it easier to put on in a rush but trying to double back the waist clip would end badly for someone in a panic that didn't know what they were doing.

Nice part of auto belay type device is that the person can't screw up lowering themself if they are clipped in and it would auto return to the top if you needed more than one person to get out.

As others have said 25ft just use the ladder, even if you fall off the ladder there is a good chance you would live. You would be surprised how often people fall from 30+ ft with only minor injuries. I know multi people who have fallen from 80+ ft and lived.
Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

and you're going to be responsible for the liability of anyone who uses this?

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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