How to tell a sport route from a bolted trad route (?)
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So after the whole runaway 'stolen draws thread', I'm left unsure of what I previously thought I knew. So can anyone enlighten me as to how to tell whether a bolted route is asport route or a bolted trad route, please? |
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When I finish the climb and find a little poop in my underwear, I know it's a bolted trad climb. |
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Brownpoint |
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If you could aid up it with a set of quickdraws and a pair of aiders, it's a sport route. |
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Derrick W wrote:If you could aid up it with a set of quickdraws and a pair of aiders, it's a sport route.I was going to say that if a stick clip could be used to steal all the fixed draws it's sport route. But that's sarcasm. A lot of things need to be taken into account. Just because it's run out doesn't mean its trad. |
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Mathias wrote:So after the whole runaway 'stolen draws thread', I'm left unsure of what I previously thought I knew. So can anyone enlighten me as to how to tell whether a bolted route is asport route or a bolted trad route, please?Usually, the risk factor dictates whether one calls is a sport route vs "other". Simply put, the bolts need to be close enough together to mitigate, for the most part, risks involved with falling while lead climbing. During the early years of "sport climbing", those distances could be pretty far apart by modern standards and over the years, the bolts have grown closer together. The distance between bolts will also vary by region as well. "Gym Tight" bolting might dominate one area while another might lean towards more spacing for various reasons. Areas like the Verdon or Ratikon are far more spicy |
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From MP new route description: |
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Mathias wrote:So after the whole runaway 'stolen draws thread', I'm left unsure of what I previously thought I knew. So can anyone enlighten me as to how to tell whether a bolted route is asport route or a bolted trad route, please?Trad = Bolted on lead from stances Sport = Bolted using some form of aid Trad = Generally runout and scary due to the difficulty in bolting on lead Sport = Generally bolted with the safety of the climber in mind Obviously there are never any absolutes in anything, and you can't always tell if a route is a sport or a trad route just by climbing it, but the above are generalized rules. Traditional climbing involves starting on the ground and making your way up the rock placing protection along the way for the first ascent. Sport climbing involves pre-placing the gear prior to doing the first ascent. This is the heart of what differentiates the two. |
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mattm wrote: ...those distances could be pretty far apart by modern standards and over the years, the bolts have grown closer together.I suspect that this has more to do with style ethics. If the crag goes in ground up you get the bolts were you can. If the climb goes in top down you get the bolts where they are needed. |
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gription wrote: I was going to say that if a stick clip could be used to steal all the fixed draws it's sport route. But that's sarcasm. Alot of things need to be taken into account. Just because it's run out doesn't mean its trad.It could just be north carolina climbing... normally first bolt is 25-30ft up the next around 60 and the last at 100ft. |
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ViperScale wrote: It could just be north carolina climbing... normally first bolt is 25-30ft up the next around 60 and the last at 100ft.Thats what I call "Sporty" |
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Our climbing style is pretty much you must be able to deck from the clip, anything closer is aid climbing /nod |
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I'll take the bait since this is an question that actually comes up quite often with many of the climbers I know nowadays. When I started climbing in the late 80's in NC, I'd never heard of either term - climbing was just climbing. But we were sheltered from the sport climbing rage at the time - it came later in the 90's (I think). |
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This 2009 article in Alpinist #26 by John Bachar recounting the FA of the Bachar-Yerian might help inform: |
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Its hot as hell here, and Im stuck in the ac...so here we go. |
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Mathias wrote:So can anyone enlighten me as to how to tell whether a bolted route is asport route or a bolted trad route, please?I would think if you could look up and understand that the bolt spread might keep you from a long fall and/or getting hurt (or minimizing the chance of getting hurt) if you fell, then its a sport route. If there are gaps as runouts between bolt placements, especially if you can see features like cracks which easily take gear, then, its a mixed trad route. If their aren't runouts in the bolt spread even when gear options are available, then its a sports route. Really doesn't matter what style the route is put up in (ground up or top down). Its the end product and the in situ protection that determines whether its a sport or trad route, IMHO. |
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If you need to place gear where gear is available, and falling would be a bad idea as opposed to routine, that's probably not a sport route. |
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Whether you have a nut tool on your harness or not. |
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Muscrat wrote:From MP new route description: Sport - most people lead with just quickdraws. Trad - most people use some trad gear. There may also be bolts as well. Other - boulder problem, TR (but not trad or sport), snow route, etc. Toprope - you can set up a TR without leading the route.That is only in the context of making MP route entries, where it needs to be clear cut to fit in a form and the emphasis is on letting you know what gear to bring. |
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Look at the bolting, if "Yer Gonna Die" or leave a 100ft red streak on the rock if you slip, its trad. If you gonna fall 20ft, airborne and land comfortably on yer rope, its sport. |
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