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Quickdraws stolen off overboard at Smith

Original Post
daniel gurule · · Seoul, Korea · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 0

I left my draws overnight on the proj and came back to them gone. Eye witnesses report the thief was a male 5'11" with wire rim glasses and of Asian decent. He took at least 7 of my draws off the lower and upper portion of the route. Please call Daniel at 5412131074 if you've got any beta on the whereabouts of my gear. Thanks!

bdwalker23 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

I'm more surprised that you were expecting them to still be there the next day.

Brad Caldwell · · Deep in the Jocassee Gorges · Joined May 2010 · Points: 1,400

Really? You abandon gear and expect others to not take it? If you left a $20 bill on the sidewalk, would you expect it to be there the next day too???

Benjamin Chapman · · Small Town, USA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 18,818

Daniel...sorry to learn that you lost your draws, but leaving your gear on a route was foolhardy. Not only was it poor judgement, but flat out lazy. Would leave your car keys in the car door and your wallet on the hood while going off to the crag? Clean the route of your gear and brush off the holds for the next party. Hope you get your draws back and learn from the experience.

Daniel Winder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 101

Daniel, you're taking a beating here, but the loss of your draws is not surprising given the route description here on MP:
"A great pitch that often gets used as a warm up for the 5.13s to the right on the Churning Buttress. It sees a lot of traffic, but with good reason."

Still, it would be nice to get them back.

Joe Garibay · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 86

I lost a 20 last weekend if anybody has seen it

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885

One draw is booty. 7 Draws at Smith is theft, at least in the generally accepted world of honest climbers. Wax on about "trash" or abandoned gear all you want to "justify" it in your head but we all know theft we we see it.

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

If you wanted to make a statement about leaving project draws, you pull them down and leave them with a note at the local climbing shop and post up on MP about how cool you were for "cleaning up" your crag. If you pull the draws and take them home, you're just a thief.

Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

I'd fucking steal them?? What is this project draw nonsense, it's not a route being developed, it's draws left on a route of "the most popular crag in Oregon" "a warm up". I'd steal them, and the good-hearted part of me would look online for the asshat wanting em back, but i'd be taking em home. I mean it's not even solely about the physical act of taking, if I approached a climb and wanted to lead it and I saw someone had left their shit all over it for their convenience, i'd take them just as retribution to being pissed. I don't know anywhere where it's acceptable to just be leaving your shit around, especially on something that's well within others' abilities.

I'm gonna get flamed, because I haven't been climbing that long and have no idea about this project nonsense.... But seriously I'm happy when my car is intact when I get back to it. I don't go and leave stuff out in the woods hoping it will be there. Just speaking for the truth. Losing is a whole different subject, but claiming, crossing fingers, and expecting?

Will S · · Joshua Tree · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,061

Tom Sherman, why would you not just clip the ones in place. Put the wear and tear on the hanging draws and don't be a thief. Everyone goes home happy.

I agree it's kind of bad form to leave draws on something that isn't that hard in the grand scheme, but who's to say what's hard enough? Start drawing that line and pretty soon Ondra types are stealing all your draws because they can warm up on things most of us could never send.

It's not a difficult concept, the whole route is equipped with maybe the exception of something reachable by tourons? Project or accident, leave them alone. Single random draw, booty, by all means add it to your collection.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
Tom Sherman wrote: I don't know anywhere where it's acceptable to just be leaving your shit around
You are correct, you don't know.

It's acceptable to leave project draws many places and I'll bet Smith is one of them. If you take them you are violating local customs and you are a thief. Climb a little longer and in more places and you will understand this.

Whether you then choose to remain a thief is really a matter of your underlying character.
Ryan Palo · · Bend, oregon · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 605

Daniel, sorry to hear your draws were taken. What kind of draws were they? When you say 'upper portion' were you referring to the draws above the first set of anchors?

mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0
Mark E Dixon wrote: You are correct, you don't know. It's acceptable to leave project draws many places and I'll bet Smith is one of them. If you take them you are violating local customs and you are a thief. Climb a little longer and in more places and you will understand this. Whether you then choose to remain a thief is really a matter of your underlying character.
Thanks, Mark for the first voice of reason here.

If the responses on this thread are representative of the Central Oregon population, I'm glad I left before all the assholes showed up.
Sergey Shelukhin · · Seattle, WA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 14

I wouldn't want to be climbing on someone else's draws, I don't know how long they have been there, I don't want to check at the clip whether they are all worn out or whether the biners are set up wrong (like in the case of that kid that died), or whatever.
So at the very least I would remove them if they were on an established route...
Not sure what the ethics are where, but it sounds like it's enough of a gray area wrt theft. If it was easy enough for me to drop them off at a ranger or a gear shop nearby, why not. Otherwise I don't know. Take them? Leave them at the base of the route? In latter case it's much more likely someone else will booty them anyway.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
Sergey Shelukhin wrote:I wouldn't want to be climbing on someone else's draws, I don't know how long they have been there.
Maybe when you've been climbing a little longer you will have a better grasp of how fixed and project draws work.
Sergey Shelukhin · · Seattle, WA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 14

I understand these concepts. I've never seen fixed draws on anything easier than 5-12 and I've never seen left draws on an established route.
I think my point about climbing on other people's gear is completely valid... If I ever get to fixed draw level I'd be damned sure to be checking the fixed draws, the same way you check bolts that look sketchy or move (stem) when you clip, or check existing rap slings on established rap anchors and add your own. If I'm climbing on a trade route (that is listed as a warmup no less), why should I spend time on the clip looking at some random draw to assess whether it's safe to use, for the convenience of one person?
In fact, the easier the route the worse the crime in this case, cause more people will get on it.

Crimper E6 · · cheltenham, UK, SW is the BEST · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 4,590

only cunts (and queenslanders) steal draws off routes, no excuses

Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

Its not about the integrity of their draws, dear god I hope not, but one's ability to place the draws themselves. I'd rather climb trad, but I take pride in telling myself I did something myself. Clip someone's prehung draws? You just stole my ability to do that climb. I don't climb 5.11 and I don't know anything of this project draw nonsense, I thought that was reserved for undeveloped routes. But if you mean to tell me that you can just claim a route and leave your gear?? Why can't I leave a TR overnight, that way its mine in the morning? How long can you leave these project draws? The people I climb with figure out how to get their gear back at the end of the day.

Apologies for how appalling my ignorance must come across, but this is a venture into the unknown for me...

daniel gurule · · Seoul, Korea · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 0

It entertains me that so many people have an opinion on the situation. Was I right, was I wrong? Is my project too easy or too hard? To be frank, I don't really care about what any of you have to say. As I said in my original post, please get in touch if you have info about where my draws are.

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625
CrimperE6 wrote:only cunts (and queenslanders) steal draws off routes, no excuses
Dan, you crack me up, and yes, lowest of the low. Smith is 'one of those places' where we leave draws on lines we are working, and is acceptable for the area. Just look at "To bolt or not to Be', "Latin Lover", etc. almost always draws, someone working their project. Bad karma to rip draws, and easy to tell the difference between bail draw and project. And projects can be 5.10 or 5.14, not all of us onsight 5.14's.
I would, btw, if i ran into the thief, explain the situation, and expect the return with apologies. Or throw him off the top of the Monkey. With a rope. An 80 meter rope. (It's <70m to the ground, oh well)
Jonathan Cunha · · Bolinas, CA · Joined May 2014 · Points: 62

^

Damn--toss 'em off the cliff for taking your draws? Remind me not to borrow any of your stuff man...

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Pacific Northwest
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