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What's with all the sand bagging lately?

Original Post
Zach Gubran · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 20

Is it just me or does it seem like the new trend in bouldering is for every climber who can climb to instantly sandbag the difficulty of the problem they just spent countless hours and effort trying to send? I know problems get there rating from consensus, but it seems like crowd sourcing sites like this are starting to give consensus ratings that are way off. Any thoughts?

beensandbagged · · smallest state · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 0

It is climbing, there has always been sandbagging, I thought it was part of the fun.

Zach Gubran · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 20

I understand that it is a part of climbing and most outdoor adventure sports for that matter. The more we progress the easier things begin to feel, but it seems lately that instead of people progressing to harder grades they just sand bag the easy and moderate grades down to the point of ridiculousness. It's hard to judge progress when past sends are constantly downgraded and new sends are given ridiculously low ratings. Is the system the issue or is it the crowd sourcing sites that fuel the sandbagging fire? If it is an issue with crowd sourced consensus ratings, is there a way you to better incorporate say a rater's biographical information to give more accurate ratings? It seems a little unfair for a v8 climber to be rating a v5 climb, because of course it is going to feel easy to them and that line between v4-v5 will not feel as stark compared to the v4 climber pushing into v5's. I guess I am just trying to say, have an accurate rating system or don't have one at all...

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

The other day I came home and told my wife that I had flashed a V5. She looked at me and asked what does that mean? I said it means that it was really V4.

Max Supertramp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 95

It's only really good if it's your buddy.

Tronald Dump · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

sandbagging is totally not a new thing. Has anyone been on one of Fred Beckey's 5.9+'a?

Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143

Did it occur to you that perhaps the consensus ratings are accurate?

ben jammin · · Moab, UT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 852

I feel exactly the opposite. Grade inflation is getting out of hand.

Frank Stein · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 205

Agreed about grade inflation in bouldering. One should check out the older classics in places like Horsetooth, Hueco, and Morrison...Those are the standards. What are full on long term projects in those areas, I often onsight at other, newer places.

Jordan E Miller · · Asheville, NC · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 0

I'm a moderate climber who has climbed in Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Utah, and Colorado. Sandbagging/infaltion occurs anywhere you go. Specific areas are definitely more prone to it. I doubt sandbagging/inflation will stop but people can help by giving an accurate rating to climbs. . Make sure to factor in: beta, height, holds, movements, rock, etc. Just don't be a jerk and downgrade things because you feel like it or because that V5 was nothing compared to your V10 project. Also don't call the first V5 you've ever done a V7... Doesn't make sense.

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

Climbing friend,

You must simply become better climber so that you may not be disturbed by the sandbaggery, and instead you may do the sandbaging of your climbing friend.

It is most enjoyable to watch a climbing friend struggle and curse on the climbing rocks you ahve wired with countless ascents.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

I think the problem comes more down to gyms than anything. I have walked into a gym and ran laps on V5 and V6 (even onsighted a V7+)... yet when i go outside a V5 normally takes me 2-3 days of work and a V6 is a project to me, and i can't for the life of me touch a V7 yet.

But people who are used to gyms with extremely easy problems and doing V4 and V5 in there go outside to a real boulder field and can't do a V1 they think it is sandbagged.

You than also have different types of problems. Just because you can do a tiny crimp V5 doesn't mean you can do a V3 sloper problem if you have never had to use a sloper.

At the same time there are plenty of places that do have stupid grading HP40 being one where I can't even do some of their V2 problems but can do V5 problems there.

shotwell · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0
ViperScale wrote:I think the problem comes more down to gyms than anything. I have walked into a gym and ran laps on V5 and V6 (even onsighted a V7+)... yet when i go outside a V5 normally takes me 2-3 days of work and a V6 is a project to me, and i can't for the life of me touch a V7 yet. But people who are used to gyms with extremely easy problems and doing V4 and V5 in there go outside to a real boulder field and can't do a V1 they think it is sandbagged. You than also have different types of problems. Just because you can do a tiny crimp V5 doesn't mean you can do a V3 sloper problem if you have never had to use a sloper. At the same time there are plenty of places that do have stupid grading HP40 being one where I can't even do some of their V2 problems but can do V5 problems there.
I actually believe a lot of these issues are about individual skill sets. When I primarily climbed outside I consistently flashed v7. Upon returning to the gym, I found that v6 would typically take at least one long session. I rarely found any gym to be easier than climbing outside outside of some specific problems that played to my strengths.

Now that I climb indoors more than outside, my grades are fairly well matched up. v8 or v9 goes down in a short session, and everything else is in my flash range. The funny thing is that if I stopped climbing in the gym, I would instantly drop off. I don't drop off much when I climb outside less, for what it is worth. To me, this means that I still find the gym to be hard, and might even find your gym hard.
Matt Michael · · Oceanside, CA · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 20

Some gyms are harder than others, just like outside. When I first began climbing at my current gym I found the boulders there difficult. Now that I've been climbing there just about every other day for the past 6 months I find them on point - if not soft. That is not to say that certain gyms don't give soft ratings, because many certainly do. I now go back and struggle at a gym down in SD county (California) that I used to climb at and cruise problems. I know for a fact that I have not gotten any weaker, if anything I've grown stronger (as I just sent a mini-project the other day, outside mind you, that I used to not be able to stick the first move of). I suppose my body has adjusted to the setting styles of my current gym and forgotten the styles of the other gym. It's an interesting point to ponder but mostly worthless. As far as grades outside I believe it really falls on the first ascentionist. I've been to climbing areas where the grades seem all over the board! In Yosemite I've sent the hardest v5 I've ever done and the EASIEST v5 I've ever done!

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
shotwell wrote: I actually believe a lot of these issues are about individual skill sets. When I primarily climbed outside I consistently flashed v7. Upon returning to the gym, I found that v6 would typically take at least one long session. I rarely found any gym to be easier than climbing outside outside of some specific problems that played to my strengths. Now that I climb indoors more than outside, my grades are fairly well matched up. v8 or v9 goes down in a short session, and everything else is in my flash range. The funny thing is that if I stopped climbing in the gym, I would instantly drop off. I don't drop off much when I climb outside less, for what it is worth. To me, this means that I still find the gym to be hard, and might even find your gym hard.
The one thing about outdoor climbing is there is not "set holds". If you are in a gym than you are stuck using the holds that are there. I have noticed alot of times outdoors I climb routes non-standard ways because of my height / style of climbing. Sometimes if you are short it makes a gym route impossible but if that route was outdoors you could use a really crappy crimp to get around the height issue.
Micah Klesick · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 3,971
Allen Sanderson wrote:The other day I came home and told my wife that I had flashed a V5. She looked at me and asked what does that mean? I said it means that it was really V4.
Haha +1
Matt Duthie · · Ann Arbor, Michigan · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 10

Yes, climbing grades are ridiculous and inconsistent. This is a fact. And so is personal technique and preference to style. I readily gym-boulder v5-7 because I'll take "sketchy/scary" falls onto 5" thick uniform flat padding without any complaints...outside, v4ish with the possibility of falling on sharp and dangerous shite. I happily lead slab 5.11c/d because I like it, bouldery sport climbs more like 5.10d/11a and think they're harder for me. Trad leading is more like 5.9+ because it's generally a lot more serious a thing to do. And I've been over my head on 5.6 trad climbs and fallen repeatedly off V3 outside. And climbed things with numbers I wouldn't tell other people it's the grade that "I climb at" because some things are just better suited for different height/build/skillset/etc. Anyways, welcome to the adventure of climbing in different areas with problems/routes established in different decades...

M. G. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 0
Allen Sanderson wrote:The other day I came home and told my wife that I had flashed a V5. She looked at me and asked what does that mean? I said it means that it was really V4.
I say that all the time!
My gym is stupidly soft...which has never ceased to be frustrating.
M. G. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 0
powhound84 wrote: Same here but I understand that it's a business and if beginners go home feeling good about the grade they climbed, they are more likely to come back. It's a confidence builder... until you go outside and get smacked back down to reality :) My gym (Vertical Endeavors in Glendale Heights) is at least 3 grades easier than the routes I climb at Devils Lake.
I just don't understand why they don't make more 'sub V1' grades to give the beginners a sense of their progress.
VB-
VB
VB+
V0-
V0
V0+
then a realistic V1

Beginning climbers aren't (all) idiots...they don't need to be coddled to.
J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50

Eventually, if you try hard enough, you will send the hardest of whatever particular grade, and then, you can tell that asshole to shut the hell up when he downgrades your wife's project.

It's called the chain of shame. Keep your pond small if it bothers you.

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175
M. G. wrote: I just don't understand why they don't make more 'sub V1' grades to give the beginners a sense of their progress. VB- VB VB+ V0- V0 V0+ then a realistic V1 Beginning climbers aren't (all) idiots...they don't need to be coddled to.
Climbing friend,

They do not do this because bouldering is the sport of the climbing rocks for those most badass, with strong, resilient heart of steel pumping cold icy viscous fluid through your veins, and iron grip of crushing fist, who would not be needing to go home and cry to mommy despite unrelenting punishment.

It is part of the process to be having the soul crushing humiliation and ego starvation when you begin your bouldering career, when you desperately crave not learning but "success" from racking up huge combinations of v points to show your friends and prove you are a worthwhile human being, yet you cannot yet send your VO- project that is called "Warm Up."

But perhaps you are right, I too believe that the only purpose most great of climbing is to feel most excellent to myself about the bold flash of higher and higher arbitrary numbers. Perhaps, climbing friend, we may subdivide the V scale so that we would be having the tenths of the grade on which to base our progressions, such as V1.0 V1.2, V1.3, and so on, giving us 150+ more grades to choose from.

Think you this be idea most great? MYah?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Bouldering
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