Found a hangboard training program. Thoughts?

So I was looking around and found this webpage. What I read sounded pretty reasonable. At the bottom is a training program and I'm wonder what the experienced here think about it for those climbers just getting into the 5.10s.
climbingfortherestofus.blog…

I wouldn't say it's a terrible program, but it doesn't strike me as particularly good either. The conventional wisdom that the author addresses -- beginners should be cautious of hangboarding, in part due to the risk of injury -- doesn't really seem to be a consideration in the protocol.

For instance, using body weight for the resistance across all the different grips is an unnecessary risk. Using a pulley counterweight system to set resistance allows one to train difficult grips in a very controlled manner. Also, the progression from easy grips to hard grips throughout the workout could increase the risk of injury. The end of your workout is where your risk is highest, so it may be better to put the harder/tweakier grips earlier in the workout and progress to easier grips as you become more fatigued.

Interesting thoughts, Dan. I can see merit in all of them.

I actually used this workout last night just to see what it was like. It's very different from the one I had been using (quite inconsistently), which focuses on six or seven set of 6 secs on 4 secs off for one minutes (so 6 reps). The workout in the link, whilst giving much more time between longer individual hangs, had a noticeably different effect on my forearms. Basically I found it pumpier but with more recovery between hangs. As a result, each hang was as solid as the last, unlike my other workout where the last few in any set would be quite a struggle. But I also found that it was causing fatigue to the outside of my hands and forearms too. Not in a way I felt was dangerous, just unexpected and new.

All of the physiological differences between the two workouts may make complete sense to those with more experience. To me, it's all new.

Read the book by the brothers, they have worked out a really great system, you can modify it to your circumstances.
rockclimberstrainingmanual.…

Read up, search on MP, be careful, don't overdo whatever you do.

Mathias wrote:So I was looking around and found this webpage. What I read sounded pretty reasonable. At the bottom is a training program and I'm wonder what the experienced here think about it for those climbers just getting into the 5.10s. climbingfortherestofus.blog…

Doesn't look like a good program to me at all. Major issues I see include the following:

1. No mention of a pulley system to remove weight. This is the single most important thing when it comes to hangboarding if you want to avoid injury and increase in strength. Body weight only hangs will not allow you to progress, and are much easier to cause injury especially if you are only climbing 5.10.

2. Not doing any repeaters. Sure doing a single rep might increase max strength for a single move, but most of the time in climbing you are holding a particular hold for a very short amount of time (<10 sec) and you are doing multiple moves in a row, so for a set you should be trying to mimic this. I'd recommend sets of 6 hangs of between 7 and 10 seconds with 3 to 5 seconds of rest between each hang.

3. The length of time you are hangboarding is way too long. you will plateau and not be able to increase in strength after 4 to 6 weeks. Continuing to hang past that for the full three months won't be bennificial.

If you are honestly interested in hangboarding, pick up a copy of the Rock Climbers Training Manual by the Anderson brothers. They really know their stuff, and include hangboard training plans for beginner, intermediate, and advanced climbers.

Okay, I'm going to have to get a copy of this book, I think. I'm more interested in hangboarding for bouldering than for sport climbing, but I'd assume it all applies. Trad isn't an issue because my head's not up to speed with my body yet anyway.

Mathias, I recommend the The Rock Climber's Training Manual, as well. I've been using it for about 8 weeks and have seen some great improvements. It's also nice because it pairs up hangboarding with other climbing exercises to balance out the strength phase with power and endurance stuff.

As for hangboarding, I've found that the pulley system is a must-have to allow for consistency in the workout.

BoulderCharles wrote:Mathias, I recommend the The Rock Climber's Training Manual, as well. I've been using it for about 8 weeks and have seen some great improvements. It's also nice because it pairs up hangboarding with other climbing exercises to balance out the strength phase with power and endurance stuff. As for hangboarding, I've found that the pulley system is a must-have to allow for consistency in the workout.

+!
I'm in week 6. Lost #6 (i was 177 and 6'3', so i am not thick*), had my first v5 onight (best previous onsight was V3), feel stronger, am climbing stronger, and my wife loooves the new bod. It is brutal, fun, and targeted. And the best part is that my nagging injuries are less bothersome, i don't know why, but i'll take it. With all the $$ with throw at this game, the $40 is well spent.

• Except where it counts...my head.

kennoyce wrote: Doesn't look like a good program to me at all. Major issues I see include the following: 1. No mention of a pulley system to remove weight. This is the single most important thing when it comes to hangboarding if you want to avoid injury and increase in strength. Body weight only hangs will not allow you to progress, and are much easier to cause injury especially if you are only climbing 5.10. 2. Not doing any repeaters. Sure doing a single rep might increase max strength for a single move, but most of the time in climbing you are holding a particular hold for a very short amount of time (<10 sec) and you are doing multiple moves in a row, so for a set you should be trying to mimic this. I'd recommend sets of 6 hangs of between 7 and 10 seconds with 3 to 5 seconds of rest between each hang. 3. The length of time you are hangboarding is way too long. you will plateau and not be able to increase in strength after 4 to 6 weeks. Continuing to hang past that for the full three months won't be bennificial. If you are honestly interested in hangboarding, pick up a copy of the Rock Climbers Training Manual by the Anderson brothers. They really know their stuff, and include hangboard training plans for beginner, intermediate, and advanced climbers.

I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but feel like some thoughts should be addressed:

Your thoughts on max weight hangs vs. repeaters: the blog author points out he feels that climbing volume ought to be maximized, the hangboarding is merely supplemental, thus I think repeaters are unnecessary, if ones concern is doing multiple moves in a row, there are better ways to train that (limit bouldering, feet-on campus board work, 4x4s etc)

The idea that you wont get stronger after 4-6 weeks: again, gains might not be maximized (this is why periodic training schedules are so popular:maximum gains), however gains can still be made, especially if the board work is supplemental.

frankstoneline wrote: I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but feel like some thoughts should be addressed: Your thoughts on max weight hangs vs. repeaters: the blog author points out he feels that climbing volume ought to be maximized, the hangboarding is merely supplemental, thus I think repeaters are unnecessary, if ones concern is doing multiple moves in a row, there are better ways to train that (limit bouldering, feet-on campus board work, 4x4s etc) The idea that you wont get stronger after 4-6 weeks: again, gains might not be maximized (this is why periodic training schedules are so popular:maximum gains), however gains can still be made, especially if the board work is supplemental.

All very true, however, I still believe that repeaters are more sport specific than max hangs and will therefor help you more as a climber. As far as the hangboard timeframe, I don't know why you would ever want to do any training program that doesn't maximize gains. Yes you can make gains without doing a periodized program, but if you can increase those gains through periodization, why would you want to do anything else?

Like you said though, if you are just looking for a supplemental program without trying to maximize strength gains, then this program would work.

kennoyce wrote: All very true, however, I still believe that repeaters are more sport specific than max hangs and will therefor help you more as a climber. As far as the hangboard timeframe, I don't know why you would ever want to do any training program that doesn't maximize gains. Yes you can make gains without doing a periodized program, but if you can increase those gains through periodization, why would you want to do anything else? Like you said though, if you are just looking for a supplemental program without trying to maximize strength gains, then this program would work.

I think (and this is largely speculation) many people struggle with the somewhat rigid schedule required for a periodized program. In this case, I suspect the typical 5.10 climber is reluctant to dive into a strict program, and so doing a couple supplementary workouts/week is beneficial. Also: I typically avoid repeaters because I find the required volume difficult to work into a schedule/it can be high impact. A basic max weight type workout a la Eva Lopez can be done in 35 minutes before I leave for work, and I can still have a night session that night, which is nice.

So I took a very quick look at the Rock Prodigy program. It seems quite involved. How long a session and how many times a week do those of you that use it spend training? Does anyone have experience with coming off of this program, and if you have, how much did you notice your climbing suffer as a result?

I'm asking because whilst I would welcome a simple, once-weekly suplimental training routine, I climb more for fun than to push the grades. Obviously there's some emphasis on grades but if I make it feel too much like work, I don't think I'll enjoy it as much. What I've really been looking for is more contact strength for bouldering, as this is where I'm really feeling limitations. If this program, in some form, is easy enough to digests and can be done once a week, I'd be inclined to try it out. Otherwise I think I probably wouldn't dedicate myself to it fully.

Mathias wrote:So I took a very quick look at the Rock Prodigy program. It seems quite involved. How long a session and how many times a week do those of you that use it spend training? Does anyone have experience with coming off of this program, and if you have, how much did you notice your climbing suffer as a result? I'm asking because whilst I would welcome a simple, once-weekly suplimental training routine, I climb more for fun than to push the grades. Obviously there's some emphasis on grades but if I make it feel too much like work, I don't think I'll enjoy it as much. What I've really been looking for is more contact strength for bouldering, as this is where I'm really feeling limitations. If this program, in some form, is easy enough to digests and can be done once a week, I'd be inclined to try it out. Otherwise I think I probably wouldn't dedicate myself to it fully.

BLUF: The RCTM program doesn't have to feel like work at all, for details see below.

Honestly, the program is as involved as you want it to be. You will obviously see the greatest results if you follow it strictly, but you could certainly take the principals of the program and cut it down to whatever you felt was manageable and still see results.

As far as how long and how many times a week you do it, that depends on the phase of the program that you are currently working on. I generally only do the hangboarding phase for 1 month every 4 months, so during that phase, yes, my outdoor climbing volume suffers a bit, but I still try to get out once a week. Below is the breakdown of what I do:

2 weeks of ARC training, This is the most boring of the indoor training, but I'll generally ARC on Mondays and Wednesdays, then climb outside trying to get lots of mileage in on Saturdays for these two weeks. Each ARC session takes about 1.5 hours (1 hour of climbing, 30 minutes of rest). If you don't want to specifically ARC you could certainly build base fitness by just climbing a lot of mileage outside during this phase.

4-5 weeks of hangboarding. During the hangboarding phase I will hangboard twice a week on Monday and Thursday, then climb outside on Saturday. I am doing the advanced hangboard routine which takes about an hour for each session, I believe the beginner hangboard workout takes closer to 20 minutes. My outside climbing during this phase is generally lots of mileage on easier routes as I am recovering from hangboarding.

3-4 weeks of power training. During the power phase I generally start out with the first couple of weeks doing 2 workouts on the campus board each week (Monday and Wednesday), then limit bouldering on Saturday, and then switch the campus board for limit bouldering and powerful routes towards the end of the phase. Campus board workouts are generally less than an hour including warming up. You could certainly ditch the campus board workouts and just work on powerful routes or problems during this phase if you want more outdoor time.

2-4 weeks of power endurance training. During the power endurance phase I try to climb outside 3 times a week doing route intervals on powerful routes, or just working on power endurance routes. If you prefer bouldering you could do 4x4s or linked bouldering circuits as well. I just happen to prefer climbing routes.

The payoff, 4ish weeks of performance phase. For a month I don't think about training at all, I just climb outside as much as I can. By this point I am noticeably much stronger than when I started the cycle and just climb as much as possible. This is why doing a periodized training plan is so great.

After each training cycle I take a couple of weeks off climbing. This is hard to do and I sometimes do end up climbing, I just try to keep off hard routes and let my body recuperate.

As you can see above, even though I do follow the plan pretty strictly, I really only have a month out of every 4 where I'm doing two hangboard sessions a week. Pretty much all the other training phases can be done outside on rock by simply choosing the right types of routes or problems to climb. I personally don't feel like I am climbing any less than I climbed prior to starting the RCTM training program, and in fact, find the hangboard sessions to be quite fun and only take two hours a week for a month.

Basically what I'm trying to say with this extremely long winded post is that it doesn't end up feeling like work to me at all.

+1 For the rock climber training manual, following the book to the letter took me out of the 10s and comfortably into the 11s. Personally, this jump in grades really helped me to enjoy climbing more, in the way that I felt stronger and more confident while climbing, but also opened up all kinds of new route options. In my experience, if you can find someone willing to go through the training with you, it will be easier to stay on track. Last time I went through a complete training cycle, was 6 months ago and granted I have kept to a regular climbing schedule, but I have not lost anything in terms of grade. RCTM has some specific training layouts for Trad, sport and bouldering and some good advice about how to construct your own program.

Mathias wrote:So I took a very quick look at the Rock Prodigy program. It seems quite involved. How long a session and how many times a week do those of you that use it spend training? Does anyone have experience with coming off of this program, and if you have, how much did you notice your climbing suffer as a result? I'm asking because whilst I would welcome a simple, once-weekly suplimental training routine, I climb more for fun than to push the grades. Obviously there's some emphasis on grades but if I make it feel too much like work, I don't think I'll enjoy it as much. What I've really been looking for is more contact strength for bouldering, as this is where I'm really feeling limitations. If this program, in some form, is easy enough to digests and can be done once a week, I'd be inclined to try it out. Otherwise I think I probably wouldn't dedicate myself to it fully.

Mathias, I will attempt to keep this short. I think the RCTM is "the more you put into it, the more you get out". That said, it is nothing to be afraid of, and the information alone is worth the big $40. I will second the thought that it does not feel like work or training, varied, hard, fun, and the results are fast (as i stated earlier). Having a partner would be nice, sometimes, but i have a 'competitor' friend, who lives 40 miles away, we basically share via SM and keep each other inspired. And you will jump grades, really! And the better we climb, the funner we have.
And besides, it will make you look ripped! HA!

Holy freaking balls!!! I think I now understand why there are so many religious fanatics out there...

Look, RCTM is great & all, but you know what, comparable to the bible, there are in fact other path you can follow to improve you climbing. We're talking about 5.10-5.11 range, literally any type of hangboarding, with the exception of overdoing it, will help improve your climbing grade.

As for the program detailed in RCTM, I know some people followed it to the T & have improved, one that has incorporated it in his training & sent multiple 5.15s. And then there are others who have tried & didn't think it was as effective as their own thing, yet others who try to follow it & it's literally sucked every drop of joy from their climbing.

I know a lot of you are enthusiastic about your gain from following RCTM, but that doesn't mean you have to be so preachy...

reboot wrote:Holy freaking balls!!! I think I now understand why there are so many religious fanatics out there... Look, RCTM is great & all, but you know what, comparable to the bible, there are in fact other path you can follow to improve you climbing. We're talking about 5.10-5.11 range, literally any type of hangboarding, with the exception of overdoing it, will help improve your climbing grade. As for the program detailed in RCTM, I know some people followed it to the T & have improved, one that has incorporated it in his training & sent multiple 5.15s. And then there are others who have tried & didn't think it was as effective as their own thing, yet others who try to follow it & it's literally sucked every drop of joy from their climbing. I know a lot of you are enthusiastic about your gain from following RCTM, but that doesn't mean you have to be so preachy...

Amen to that.

There's obviously a lot of passion from those who use this program, so thank you for sharing, and in such detail. As you all seem to enjoy it, it's worth a closer look.

And reboot, thanks to you for balancing the scales a little. Really all I'm looking for is a way to improve contact strength when climbing isn't feasible. And hoping to do so in a way that is short enough or interesting enough that I don't get bored and quit doing it.

Another thing to remember, as quoted from the RCTM website:

"Before I get into the gory details, realize that my routine is designed specifically to train me for the type of climbing that I prefer. Stop and read that sentence again....vertical to barely overhanging rock with technical, powerful moves. On these type of routes, endurance is usually not as important as power. I have found with this style that if you can do all the moves, then you can usually do the route because a good rest is almost always available."

reboot wrote:Holy freaking balls!!! I think I now understand why there are so many religious fanatics out there... Look, RCTM is great & all, but you know what, comparable to the bible, there are in fact other path you can follow to improve you climbing. We're talking about 5.10-5.11 range, literally any type of hangboarding, with the exception of overdoing it, will help improve your climbing grade. As for the program detailed in RCTM, I know some people followed it to the T & have improved, one that has incorporated it in his training & sent multiple 5.15s. And then there are others who have tried & didn't think it was as effective as their own thing, yet others who try to follow it & it's literally sucked every drop of joy from their climbing. I know a lot of you are enthusiastic about your gain from following RCTM, but that doesn't mean you have to be so preachy...

One thing that I think gets people on board with the rctm is that it's a pretty canned training for plan. Most other training literature provides ideas and exercises but stops short of laying out what to do when based on climbing ability, so additional planning and research is required.

Wow, RCTM backlash?!?!? I think that is a sure sign that you have "arrived."

Fact is, training isn't for everyone. Train if you want to (it can be very enjoyable for some), don't if you don't want to.

Same with dieting. Being lighter in a strength to weight ratio sport will help you climb harder, but not stuffing your face with nachos isn't for everyone.