Alpine ropes
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Hi Everybody, |
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Most ropes are rated as half's and twins when there that small now-a-days. Depending on the rope, clipping one or two will cause a greater force. The point of rating as both half & twin is that the difference in this force is small enough that you can use them as either. 8.9 is a bit on the big side. There are single ropes that size. I would absolutely consider the mammut serenity 8.7's. Probably one of the most versitle ropes on the market, seeing as there also rated as a single. |
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Here r my thoughts... |
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Thanks for the reply guys. I'll check out the joker and serenity |
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Be Esperanza wrote: My last question is a bit technical. I researched some previous forum post related to the topic, and it appears that many believe that clipping two non twin ropes into the same biner would actually create more force on the piece. I would think that it would actually create less because your weight is being distributed between two ropes as opposed to one. Anyone care to elaborate?You will always get more force on the top piece with two ropes then one rope, assuming it is the same rope. So in the example of a twin/half rated rope, where in the same situation you were to fall on the rope in twin mode (both through the top piece) or half mode (one through the top piece), you would always generate more force on the top piece in twin mode. It is possible to find a half or single that will have less impact force than any given twin system. It is also possible to have a twin system with less impact force than any given half or single system. It is unclear what happens when you mix and match different ropes as twins, but the higher impact force rope will likely dominate. |
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I always thought twin ropes had more durable sheaths than halves so they could run through the same gear without abrading. Yeah they move mostly together, but there's always going to be a bit of play and I thought halves were susceptible to sheath failure if clipped together as twins. |
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Emmett Lyman wrote:I always thought twin ropes had more durable sheaths than halves so they could run through the same gear without abrading. Yeah they move mostly together, but there's always going to be a bit of play and I thought halves were susceptible to sheath failure if clipped together as twins. I dunno, probably nothing to this. Maybe just a story the old timers tell to scare kids?Twins are suppose to have lower impact so they stretch a lot. Halves should a higher impact since they're used separate. I think there's a bunch of rope manufactories that have compromised both ends of the impact spec to be rated as both, twins and halves. |
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Yeah, no doubt about it Bill. Ever hear anything like that about the sheaths, though? |
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Emmett Lyman wrote:Yeah, no doubt about it Bill. Ever hear anything like that about the sheaths, though?The only time I ever heard about a thicker sheath being designed into a rope was Bluewater's skinny ropes. When Bluewater designed the Wave, 9.3mm and the Icon, 9.1mm they made the sheath thicker. They claim the thicker sheath gives the ropes a longer life. I own a Bluewater Icon and it looks brand new. So I could see someone designing twins like that for longevity. |
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Thanks again for the replies guys. Bill, is there a rope that you feel is designed as an adequate compromise for the uses I described? To put it another way, are you aware of a rope that will perform well primarily as a twin, but could also be used as a single line? |
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So you are looking for an alpine rope that you can whip on all day long. |
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No, I'm looking for an alpine rope that won't get a core shot if it runs over a blade of grass. I merely mentioned my affinity for falling as background information for why I don't really like skinny ropes. |
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OK but are you really going to be whipping on the ropes and doing long alpine routes? If the pitch goes over jagged rock and you're splitting the ropes consider that a no fall zone. Generally you'll find that the harder pitches are straight forward and you'll be able to use the ropes as twins. |
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There are no twins or doubles presently made that when combined are lighter than the lightest single skinny. If you need to rap full strand get twins or doubles otherwise get a single. If sheath strength is important to you, a moderately sized single will be significantly lighter than the equivalently durable twin. |
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Be Esperanza wrote:To put it another way, are you aware of a rope that will perform well primarily as a twin, but could also be used as a single line?When you said you want to take advantage of "all three systems" in your OP, I thought you may be talking about this. So essentially you want a twin rope that can be used as a single in a pinch. There are only a few ropes on the market that's actually certified for both twin and single use, and they are usually also certified as doubles as well (makes sense since they're already certified as twin and single). Beal Joker (9.1mm), Beal Opera (8.5mm), Mammut Finesse (9.3mm), and maybe others. Putting the whole single, double, and twin certification aside, personally I've used my 8.5mm doubles (certified only as doubles) as twins when I'm not on a wandering route. The concern of increased impact force in this case is very real, but I only do this when I feel the risk is acceptable. I've also used just one of my doubles as a single when I'm shaving weight for a long approach and climbing something easy, again only when I feel the risk is acceptable. I would be very sketched about using one twin rope (certified only as twins) as a single. Ropes that are twin certified only tend to be very thin (usually less than 8.0mm), I'd be very scared to fall on something that skinny. So either get one of them triple certified rope to be totally kosher, or get the thinest twin/double dual certified rope you're comfortable falling on. Don't get twin-only rope for what you're thinking, they are just too skinny, especially when you can get twin/double dual certified rope that's just slightly heavier. |
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lets start at the top |
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For alpine I use my sterling 7.8 awesome ropes! Light weight, great handling, and light |
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Thanks for all of the responses and the "food for thought". I'll check out some of these brands and blogs. |
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Be Esperanza wrote:Thanks again for the replies guys. Bill, is there a rope that you feel is designed as an adequate compromise for the uses I described? To put it another way, are you aware of a rope that will perform well primarily as a twin, but could also be used as a single line? I guess I should provide some my biases. I generally climb on 9.8-10.2 single ropes. I like them thinker, because I take lots of whips. I started climbing at the Voo. Every time I tie into a skinny rope, I feel like I'm going to core shot it. I recently bought a 9.4 and destroyed it pretty quickly. My friends even told me it looked scary. Sooooooo, the thought of climbing on a single 8.9 is traumatic, but if there were two of them... I could deal with that. Thanks againI would have to agree with BB.. Mammut Genesis 8.5s for doubles or twins and that Icon I was telling you about and a Phoenix 8.0 for the tag line. If I'm walking far up the mountain I like to use something more useful for a tag line. Extra weight but an extra rope too in case of trouble. |
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Bill Kirby wrote: I would have to agree with BB.. Mammut Genesis 8.5s for doubles or twins and that Icon I was telling you about and a Phoenix 8.0 for the tag line. If I'm walking far up the mountain I like to use something more useful for a tag line. Extra weight but an extra rope too in case of trouble.the mammut genesis (had 50ms too kinda regret selling them), but have you ever used them as twins? |
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This brings up the subject of length. When I started climbing 45 m was sort of standard and 50 m was the "long rope". Now its 60 and 70 meters and 80s if you want. For routes where we use a single rope and want a longer "half way" I understand but long twin or doubles bring with them the issue of weighing more as well as needing more gear to protect a full rope pitch - which weighs more (as do the longer ropes). It's a kind of double edge sword when considering what all has to be carried in the Alpine realm anyway. |