What is the hardest part about learning to climb a bigwall?

I'd love it if people chimed in about what they think is the hardest part about learning to bigwall climb.

Since I'm kind of in the process of learning, I'll tell you the two things that are in my mind right now.

1) tangles. Haven't just done my first couple walls, this was a constant problem. almost 20 years of (mostly competent) trad climbing, sometimes with two ropes, and I still managed to have a constant mess at the belay with the haul line and lead line. Or twisting daisies/ropes/aiders. I was baffled sometimes how things got tangled.

2) lead speed. I'm still amazed that my partner and I were taking up to 3+ hours to lead a c2 pitch. And it's not like I haven't been placing gear for a long time.

csproul, yeah the clusters! And that's part of why the pitches take so long :)

Have you sought out answers on how to fix those parts of the experience? What hasn't been working in trying to figure it out?

Hi Csproul et al,

That's awesome that tangles are the hardest thing. Stick with it and those will untwist in no time......just remember how long it took you to write your first book report in 3rd grade compared to cranking out essays in college with beer in hand, practice makes perfect but I remember when i was learning and was blown away when meeting the guys climbing El Cap in a day, guys like Steve Gerberding and Scott Stowe, and they would always say 'oh well you should come watch us, we're not climbing that fast, we're just not wasting much time either'.

If others are interesting in climbing the Nose on El Cap, but don't really know where to start - let us know what is holding you back!

Thanks,
Erik Sloan
Yosemitebigwall.com

Rachel Arst McCullough wrote:csproul, yeah the clusters! And that's part of why the pitches take so long :) Have you sought out answers on how to fix those parts of the experience? What hasn't been working in trying to figure it out?

Yes, I do seek out advice on Bigwalls.net and have a couple of friends who are competent aid climbers. Unfortunately, I have never really gone aid-climbing with my experience partners, so it'd be nice to watch what they do too.

I'm sure you've seen CMac's video about leading where he talks about the sequence and how new leaders waste a lot of time:

walk up the ladder, try to place a piece,don't like it, walk back down, go back up, try another piece, walk back down, test it, don't like it, walk back down, go back up, fifi in, etc...

Well, unfortunately, that's me right now. I know better, but sometimes it's hard to make myself do otherwise.

I see two main areas for my improvement. The clusters and change-overs seem the easiest for me to fix and will yield immediate improvements in speed. The speed of leading seems a little more difficult to improve and may take more time. One thing I know that I need to work on is freeing more when I aid. Free climb, A0, try to treat it more like a free/aid flow rather than just purely standing in ladders and hanging on a fifi. I just need to do it more!

I can't really claim big wall status but in my mutipitch trad experience I have found that belay anchors and lead swaps are that part that really can slow you down if you don't have a plan and a system. Being very fast at setting up and tearing down anchors is the sigle best way I have been able to speed my multi pitch climbing up.

gription wrote:I can't really claim big wall status but in my mutipitch trad experience I have found that belay anchors and lead swaps are that part that really can slow you down if you don't have a plan and a system. Being very fast at setting up and tearing down anchors is the sigle best way I have been able to speed my multi pitch climbing up.

Yeah..of course this is true, but as I said, I thought I did ok with this aspect with almost 2 decades of multi-pitch trad climbing under my belt and some decently big free climbs accomplished. It wasn't until I factored in all the extra crap associated with bigwalling that it turned into a complete cluster.

The suffering in your hands and constant dehydration..you NEVER have enough water

gription wrote:I can't really claim big wall status but in my mutipitch trad experience...

While I've never done anything in a wall style, even I know those 2 aren't remotely the same thing.

What is the hardest part about learning to climb a bigwall? Well, let's see...there is the acquiring loads of expensive gear only for wall climbings, learning to use them, getting semi-proficient w/ those said gear, then realizing when wall climbing, most of your time & (especially) energy is spent not actually climbing. I like spending my precious free time actually climbing instead of hauling or figuring out how to free the pig...

reboot wrote: While I've never done anything in a wall style, even I know those 2 aren't remotely the same thing. What is the hardest part about learning to climb a bigwall? Well, let's see...there is the acquiring loads of expensive gear only for wall climbings, learning to use them, getting semi-proficient w/ those said gear, then realizing when wall climbing, most of your time & (especially) energy is spent not actually climbing. I like spending my precious free time actually climbing instead of hauling or figuring out how to free the pig...

Mostly true..until I find out that there are people who actually aid as fast or faster than I can free climb. Like all things...practice.

Even with all the hassles, complications, and snail pace, I'm hooked and I love it.

The hardest part is not living closer to Yosemite to be able to actually climb them more. I've managed four trips up the Nose, but it's taken nealry monumental logistical efforts to make them happen in terms of partners, weather and travel.

Maybe I should just move to Stockton....

bigwall climbing is EASY. If you arent afraid.

csproul wrote: Mostly true..until I find out that there are people who actually aid as fast or faster than I can free climb. Like all things...practice.

First of all, it's not really big wall style climbing if you do it < 1 day. So your HDIAD, NIAD (or any of those speed ascents) ain't wall climbing; those are just fast french freeing & I've done enough of those. You don't need to know much about wall climbing besides (at most) getting good at jumaring.

And yes, the harder the free climbing, the faster it is typically to aid. But as someone who likes free climbing, that'd be skipping the best part.

reboot wrote: First of all, it's not really big wall style climbing if you do it < 1 day. So your HDIAD, NIAD (or any of those speed ascents) ain't wall climbing; those are just fast french freeing & I've done enough of those. You don't need to know much about wall climbing besides (at most) getting good at jumaring. And yes, the harder the free climbing, the faster it is typically to aid. But as someone who likes free climbing, that'd be skipping the best part.

No argument from me. All true. If I could free my way up El Cap, I would. But I love the setting, I love the exposure, and I love ledge time with friends...and I kind of like suffering too. I'm willing to miss some of the fun of free climbing in order to experience these other aspects.

csproul wrote: No argument from me. All true. If I could free my way up El Cap, I would. But I love the setting, I love the exposure, and I love ledge time with friends...and I kind of like suffering too. I'm willing to miss some of the fun of free climbing in order to experience these other aspects.

So well said!!!

And thanks, everyone, for the comments!

Hardest part: find a partner to do your first walls with..

Now for me it is maintain speed/constant-movement on "harder" terrain.

Rachel Arst McCullough wrote:I first learned how to bigwall climb 10+ years ago in Yosemite. It was not an easy process, but rewarding for sure. I have been working with Erik Sloan to develop a system that makes learning to climb bigwalls as smooth as possible. I'd love it if people chimed in about what they think is the hardest part about learning to bigwall climb.

climbing friend,

crapping into a small bag that you carry with you for days next to your food.

Erik/Rachel,
I think the best way is to get a really good numeric measure of where improvement is needed. All this needs is a video camera at the base of a 3 pitch route, or a head cam. Aid and haul the route. Examine the film and spreadsheet the whole thing into time taken for placing gear/moving up/building belays/hauling/releasing bags ..... The pie chart will say a lot, and is by definition tailored to the individuals, not some genetic rule from the crowd.

After learning a few of the basics I set out to do my first proper big wall as a solo. This was hugely beneficial. I had no one to blame when things went wrong. With every belay I got better at organizing, rope management and how to stack and anchor for order of break down. Hauling came with practice over other walls and learning (better yet, putting into practice) different techniques. I found you can show all the skills but until you do it you never really understand. All techniques can be modified for situations. More about experience than anything

David Coley wrote:Erik/Rachel, I think the best way is to get a really good numeric measure of where improvement is needed. All this needs is a video camera at the base of a 3 pitch route, or a head cam. Aid and haul the route. Examine the film and spreadsheet the whole thing into time taken for placing gear/moving up/building belays/hauling/releasing bags ..... The pie chart will say a lot, and is by definition tailored to the individuals, not some genetic rule from the crowd.

David, I think video like that would be a huge help for not just improving, but learning as well. A spreadsheet - let me guess, are you an engineer? I only ask because I am :)

Ian Cavanaugh wrote:After learning a few of the basics I set out to do my first proper big wall as a solo. This was hugely beneficial. I had no one to blame when things went wrong. With every belay I got better at organizing, rope management and how to stack and anchor for order of break down. Hauling came with practice over other walls and learning (better yet, putting into practice) different techniques. I found you can show all the skills but until you do it you never really understand. All techniques can be modified for situations. More about experience than anything

So true, Ian! Partners can make or break the climb. And experience is key. Sounds like you were set on the all the right techniques to begin with and just needed practice. I think some of the challenge lies in those practicing inefficient techniques. I definitely was doing that until more experienced partners set me straight!