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The Devils Lake top rope cluster Fu&k thread...

Doug Hemken · · Madison, WI · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 13,668

Same folks? They clearly understand the fundamentals: strong, stable, redundant against errors in judgement. Could some details use cleaning up? Sure. But you could look at a lot of my anchors and ask why I didn't clean up all the details. (Answer: good enough, and I want to get climbing. I'm not the most patient person.)

Here I would guess that the opposed nuts and the #1 got placed early on, then they found better gear but for whatever reason didn't want to give up on the #1. I think a lot of us do this: get started, then revise our thinking without fully abandoning our starting point.

Joel Allen · · La Crosse, WI · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 265

Hmm, I guess me being somewhat new I don't settle for less than perfection which is good so I develop good habits early on. I'm also a perfectionist and a bit OCD. That's okay, I think that makes me a good climbing partner. :)

James Schroeder · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined May 2002 · Points: 3,166

Joel,

Did these guys steal your ball and go home or what? I mean yeah some of this is a bit sketchy, but I'd say middle of the road on the DL sketch continuum. So, I guess I'm asking, why you're singling them out?

Cheers,
James

Mike Robinson · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 251

I hope Joel never looks at my anchors... I don't think I could stand the embarrassment of being a focal point of this thread. Does that #1 have J. Jugs written on it? ;)

Joel Allen · · La Crosse, WI · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 265

Who said the thread HAD to be about sketchiness? Half the damn thing is about bolting ethics among other crap.

I saw an anchor that yes, is bomber, but seemed odd to me. I posted it, I learned from it. Will I ever make an anchor like this at devils lake? No, but I came out with something I didn't previously know and could maybe be helpful down the road (though I doubt it).

But then someone said that it's fine as long as their placements were solid.......... Sooooo I posted two pictures of some of their placements which were NOT fine from what I've learned. But then again maybe I don't have a clue based on these great replies.

It was nothing against the people, who I never even met. Nobody's feels were hurt (except maybe mine). I'll shy away from the forums because someone with my superior lack of knowledge clearly doesn't belong.

Cheers :)

James Schroeder · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined May 2002 · Points: 3,166
Joel Allen wrote:Who said the thread HAD to be about sketchiness? Half the damn thing is about bolting ethics among other crap. I saw an anchor that yes, is bomber, but seemed odd to me. I posted it, I learned from it. Will I ever make an anchor like this at devils lake? No, but I came out with something I didn't previously know and could maybe be helpful down the road (though I doubt it). But then someone said that it's fine as long as their placements were solid.......... Sooooo I posted two pictures of some of their placements which were NOT fine from what I've learned. But then again maybe I don't have a clue based on these great replies. It was nothing against the people, who I never even met. Nobody's feels were hurt (except maybe mine). I'll shy away from the forums because someone with my superior lack of knowledge clearly doesn't belong. Cheers :)
No Joel, don't go, you're misunderstanding us. We're just curious why you're busting these guys balls. I think we (all of us curious about your motivation) have all seen (maybe even done) stuff like (or worse) than this. I think we're all kinda thinking, "Yeah that's a little sketchy, but not that sketchy."

Keep asking questions, but don't lead in with "This one is obviously strong enough but I find it a bit laughable. Some interesting tactics. Referring to the hitched together nuts. I'd consider it a 'cluster Fu&k'. :)" unless you're sure it's sketchy. "Hey guys, is this as sketchy as I think it is?" might be a better solution :-)
Jeff Howard · · Hales Corners WI · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 0
Joel Allen wrote:Hmm, I guess me being somewhat new I don't settle for less than perfection which is good so I develop good habits early on. I'm also a perfectionist and a bit OCD. That's okay, I think that makes me a good climbing partner. :)
You clearly do not have a complete grasp of anchor building techniques but are more than willing to criticize an anchor you do not understand. There is no perfect anchor so being a perfectionist in this regard is a fools errand. Every anchor I have built over the last two decades has had some element of compromise. The key is starting with bomber placements and linking them to provide a margin of safety that is acceptable.
matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155
Joel Allen wrote: It was nothing against the people, who I never even met. Nobody's feels were hurt (except maybe mine). I'll shy away from the forums because someone with my superior lack of knowledge clearly doesn't belong. Cheers :)
The purpose of this forum is to poke fun of peoples mistakes. You made the mistake of criticizing and laughing at an anchor that you didn't understand that turns out to be bomber. Ergo, your blunder became the clusterfuck and people poke fun of you. Seem fair to me.
Joel Allen · · La Crosse, WI · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 265

With access to a full rack I don't one bit understand why one would choose to build an anchor this way. Also I cant think of a good reason to place gear badly on a top rope anchor then TR it the entire day (the two other pictures). I stand by what I said. Thanks for the input. Case closed. Move on. Peace ;)

Jeff Howard · · Hales Corners WI · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 0
Joel Allen wrote:With access to a full rack I don't one bit understand why one would choose to build an anchor this way. Also I cant think of a good reason to place gear badly on a top rope anchor then TR it the entire day (the two other pictures). I stand by what I said. Thanks for the input. Case closed. Move on. Peace ;)
My point exactly you DON'T UNDERSTAND! Pretending you do just makes you look foolish. There is no excuse for any TR anchor to be built on sketchy placements building complicated anchors is a phase most climbers go through and not the same thing. I have a friend that always uses three lockers for TR anchors I use two neither of us is wrong and if an extra biner make him feel better who gives a shit.

No one I have read condones poor placements or legitimately dangerous anchors.
Joel Allen · · La Crosse, WI · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 265

I've never even built a top rope trad anchor. I'm just basing all this on a instructional video on Youtube:

youtube.com/watch?v=bsAiOYX…

I prefer to climb at places with bolted anchors with top access so I can just feed the rope through the chains for quick and easy top roping.

Maybe one day I'll be a good enough climber to place good pieces of gear in flaring cracks and behind lose blocks and string it together with 5 pieces of cord/webbing and have 20 feet left over with one of the peices.

For now I'll just stay a gumby who dreams of climbing hard at the lake once I learn how to set an anchor.

BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 385

Don't run your rope through the anchor chains - use your own gear.

It can be as easy as two quickdraws with lockers on the rope and bolt ends.

This allows the anchor to last longer. It also helps with decreasing friction on your system and keeps the rope running smoothly when setup correctly.

People spend their own time and money to put fixed gear up, so try as best you can to respect their efforts.

Be safe and have fun!

Joel Allen · · La Crosse, WI · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 265

@bigfeet I was being facetious lol

Double J · · Sandy, UT · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 3,931

sorry, Mike-The #1 wasn't mine...I no longer have any single stem C4s.

But, yes from time to time I have put a cam next to a moving block-as long as it was a trapped block though!

Double J · · Sandy, UT · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 3,931

Joel-you ok today Bro? I hope they all didn't hurt your feelings too much, that was not their intention. Please don't go!

Double J · · Sandy, UT · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 3,931
Double J · · Sandy, UT · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 3,931
Double J · · Sandy, UT · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 3,931
Tom Grebis · · Hatfield, PA · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 0

Jon if you really like checking out some sketchy anchors try this website.
dumbanchors.blogspot.com/

Most of the pictures are taken from Carderock near D.C. a toproping spot. It seems this guy goes out every weekend and gets these pictures. It is just amazing what people can get away with.

Double J · · Sandy, UT · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 3,931

Non thumb loop is what I meant.

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