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SCC Community Forum

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Insane, bizarre, vague...

I have said it before and I will say it again.
I don't LIKE being the bad guy....
But I don't mind one bit.

The name calling was laughable.
The yelling was laughable.
The precedent is definitely not funny.

I echo Paul's sentiment.
And that of Bob and others....
Where's the SCC in all this?
Or are you their mouthpiece?
Wonder what the Access Fund thinks?

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
wwes wrote: Paul, my question WAS answered by a board member, almost as soon as I asked him. You guys immediately called it a lie, as I knew you would.
I'm tellin you that anybody who says Tilt is the only one, and that a Jeb Orr squeeze job is not also a part of their list is lying, yes...yes I certainly am saying that. Either that or even members of the board are not being given all of the information...but I believe that they are.
AUMonkeyBoy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 15
Bob M wrote:And that bit Paul posted about why they don't have elections is just ridiculous.
I agree. The board really cannot be seen as anything but a clique. One that doesn't represent well in Alabama. Retro bolting Jeb Orr is still listed as a board member. That's sort of dirty.

Another thing that strikes me as strange is having Board Members working for the SCC. Like legal or web services, for example.
Scott Phil · · NC · Joined May 2010 · Points: 258

It is easy to fixate on whether a route has been retro-bolted or not. The larger questions asked at the beginning of this thread were about stewardship of southeastern rock. Sorting those out should be the first step. It will be easier to agree on specific routes once there is a clearer understanding of the SCC’s position and intentions.

Part of being a good steward of the resource is for the organization to be open and transparent in its governance and its actions. The SCC’s by-laws should clearly state the terms, selection method, and service expectations of the board.

While it is probably just sloppy paperwork, I am concerned about the differences between the mission statements of the SCC and the SCC Land Trust. The latter doesn’t even mention climbing.

  • SCC: “To Preserve Climbing Areas For Future Generations To Enjoy. The Organization Works Hand In Hand With The Access Fund, Trust For Public Land And National Park Service.” guidestar.org/organizations…
  • SCC Land Trust: “Acquire And Preserve Green Space And Park Lands For Recreational Use” guidestar.org/organizations…

For comparison, here is the Access Fund’s mission statement: “The Access Fund is the national organization that keeps climbing areas open and conserves the climbing environment.” guidestar.org/organizations…

Finally, an easy way to lose non-profit status is for members of the board to work for the organization.
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

They've got some issues.

I will say that from the onset the SCC Pres, who I was HIGHLY critical of, was quick to acknowledge this and welcomed advise. I also dug up some stuff from meeting minutes yrs ago where he was one in favor of term limits. So there are some on the board who wanna do the right thing. At least three favor term limits that I know personally. Others are holding on too tight...WAY too tight...to the status quo.

Their biggest problem right now is that they think they are too good to respond to what they view as an "elaborate troll", which is this thread. People have the information that could clear up the Yellow Bluff thing in one post. But, you know, transparency and all...egos and such. So be it. It will wind up being their downfall.

Will Carney · · Tallulah Falls, GA · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 135

As climbers, I feel like brethren to you all. Sadly, these forums are beginning to look like the scene in Braveheart where everyone is arguing over patents of nobility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0FlffdQmA4

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.

Indeed.

Tom Beirne · · Seattle · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 136

Just out of curiosity, since I'm a dumb Yank, do you need term limits if no one is in the que? Who's chomping at the bit to volunteer and be a LEADER?

If you are motivated, have you tried to gain representation as a Board Member? And are there any occurrences of you, or this hypothetical motivated person not being accepted?

If no examples exist..... Why not?

Maybe I'm instigating, but I'd like to understand.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Major Tom...it just doesn't work that way. See Gus' remarks above. One simply does not volunteer to be a board member. One must be one of the "chosen ones" nominated by the board itself.

If you are asking if I, personally, have volunteered to help them in any capacity the answer is yes. But, alas, it was not to be. Surprised?...I wasn't. Dissent is not tolerated...Again see Gus' remarks above about not wanting anyone with "extreme views"...which evidently mine are. That...and I've just been a pain in their ass. But, someone had to do it.

AUMonkeyBoy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 15
Tom Beirne wrote:Just out of curiosity, since I'm a dumb Yank, do you need term limits if no one is in the que? Who's chomping at the bit to volunteer and be a LEADER? If you are motivated, have you tried to gain representation as a Board Member? And are there any occurrences of you, or this hypothetical motivated person not being accepted? If no examples exist..... Why not? Maybe I'm instigating, but I'd like to understand.
My impression is that few people are asking to get on board. And one might speculate that it is because of tomfoolery. I know for a fact that many of the guys that could do a good job have been offended or otherwise looked over. In the interim, it seems the current leadership or area reps have gone awry with things like documented trespassing, approaching an already irritated neighbor about donating land, and other improprieties. As I understand it, that topic started most of this after the first meeting.

Now I see on Facebook where they are asking for volunteers. Maybe they will get a qualified turn out. I sure hope so because it seems they're at least making an effort. A good Leda rep could really serve to straighten that place out a bit. I used to like climbing there.
Leftwich · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 10

Paul,
I appreciate your efforts and agree with you on a lot of the issues you have brought up. I would have to disagree with you over the term limits though. It seems to me that there are only two or three guys on the board that respect and represent the traditionalist approach to southeastern rock climbing. When I look at the board I'm thankful that these guys are there and if they were restricted in their terms I think that those positions would inevitably be filled with people who, while exhibiting great enthusiasm, lack the years and experience necessary to be a well rounded climber. With out a wide range of experience and a level head, how can you expect to represent the entirety of the community?

For every rock climber with 15+ years of experience, climbing in all of the disciplines, and having traveled to other areas to experience different perspectives; there are 100 gym bred climbers with loads of enthusiasm who have a very skewed perception of what rock climbing is about.

I don't disagree that the board certainly needs some cleaning up. It seems to me that there are people on the board who have absolutely no business being there and it needs to have a more balanced representation, but term limits and elections seem like a good way to turn the SCC into the Southeastern Popularity Contest. Then we begin the political cycle wherein a board member, in order to be elected, caters to the biggest constituency, which is also the least educated and experienced of our group, leading to more of what we have already experienced.

A

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Good points...and I do understand. What else to do though? The climbers / board members you mention are indeed a valuable asset. But, as someone stated earlier, the SCC seems to be the only non-profit that anyone can name that operates this way. Why?

And if all we do is try to keep a few good ones in there until they die...then we have already lost and are just prolonging the inevitable. So what are we doin?

What's the answer? Term limits? People with good enough sense to step down on their own? In a perfect world...how would this board be populated? How SHOULD this thing work? Is it the system that's broken, or the participants? Cause I think we can all agree that somethin's gotta give...

Scott Phil · · NC · Joined May 2010 · Points: 258

A quick point of clarification. It is not "term limits," but simply terms. As I understand it the SCC has open-ended terms. Once you're in, you're in until you get tired of being on the board. This means there are no regular elections. With terms, you can still be re-elected, but you have to have regular elections

Every non-profit that I know of has terms for their boards. In many cases the board will recommend a slate of candidates at election time, but then it is up to the membership to vote. In the vast majority of cases the membership will go with the board's recommendations.

Set terms of 2-3 years allows members of the board a gracious way to step down when they've done their time, or when other parts of their life demands more time. Set terms also means that the membership has a regular opportunity for input.

If the SCC were just a social club none of this would matter. But the SCC is also a property manager and a fund-raiser. Equally important, the SCC is widely perceived by various agencies such as the Access Fund and local/state governments as speaking for climbers--not just for its membership, but all climbers in the southeast.

The SCC has done much good work over the years and has the potential to do much more good work.

Scott Phil · · NC · Joined May 2010 · Points: 258

Terms are also typically staggered.

For example, with a 12 person board 4 slots would be up for election each year. A board will often recommend a slate of candidates. This may include the current members in those slots or it may include newcomers (or a mix of old and new).

A good board will actively recruit additional members. A good board includes broad categories of representation. This might be defined geographically, by years of experience, or preferred type of climbing.

A good board also includes people with different points of view. For a climbing organization it is sometimes helpful to have people on the board with experience in other areas of property management such as land trusts, parks, etc.

No one should agree to serve on a board unless they support the organization's mission. Within that they can still disagree on the best ways of advancing the mission.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Thank you, Scott, for addressing that issue.

This:

"If the SCC were just a social club none of this would matter. But the SCC is also a property manager and a fund-raiser. Equally important, the SCC is widely perceived by various agencies such as the Access Fund and local/state governments as speaking for climbers--not just for its membership, but all climbers in the southeast."

Yellow Bluff.
Absentee/inactive board members.
Strange agendas.
Loud-mouth retro-bolters.
"Wilderness socialism".
Sanctioned trespass.
Open = access = bolt.

....all no bueno.
And, none of which I want representing me as a climber in the SE.
Especially as it pertains to future opportunities or with regard to authorities.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
Scott Phil wrote:Equally important, the SCC is widely perceived by various agencies such as the Access Fund and local/state governments as speaking for climbers--not just for its membership, but all climbers in the southeast. The SCC has done much good work over the years and has the potential to do much more good work.
This is a damn good point. Earlier in the thread we touched on representation. I asked things like, "do you know your area rep, seen them at your home crag lately?, etc. I could care less how many pint nights or fundraisers an individual has hosted. Fundraising is certainly a big part of what the SCC has to do. But, the first and foremost qualification for a board member should be that they are a journeyman rock climber with years and years of experience climbing all over the southeast. It is the Southeastern Climbers Coalition after all...not the southeastern fundraisers coalition. I believe there are qualified individuals who became disenfranchised for a variety of reasons at some point who would step back in if they saw terms put in place guaranteeing some turnover and new opportunities.
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Update:...or NON-update, as it were...as promised.

Not one of the folks I emailed above had anything to say. Still nothing.

I guess they think if they ignore me this whole thing will go away...

shannon stegg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 0

No wonder the AAC left us off the Craggin Classics Series Tour. Community Fellowship, competency and education and stewardship of our resources is a battle the Southeast seams to be losing.

Bob M · · Alpharetta, GA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 50

I sent an email to a few of the SCC email addresses I had and did get a reply a few days later, which was completely reasonable since it was a holiday weekend. Unfortunately, the reply had no information about any of the issues that were raised at the Stone Summit meeting or in this thread.

The lack of public info makes me wonder if the strategy is to go silent and see if the whole thing just blows over. Very disappointing.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

I threw my little insignificant membership contribution to the CCC today. If for no other reason than to support the fact that they have terms and elections in place...as any non-profit board should.

I challenge anyone else reading this to do the same.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern States
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