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Eldo: 3 Fixed Hardware applications - vote

Original Post
Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,759
CanDillo · · The Great State -Colorado · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 280

Thanks Greg! Bump for Eldo Climbers

Patrik · · Third rock from Sun · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 30

WHAT?? Replacing a pin with a bolt (on C'est la Vie)? I thought Eldo replacements was "like for like". What politics has changed?

In this case, is it time to replace the pins on "Over the Hill" with bolts as well? A pin failure on Over the Hill is A LOT more serious (hitting a ledge) than a fall at the missing pin on C'est la Vie (fall in space).

On top of this, you get two great cam placements (even though one is only an aid piece, such as a black Alien, but maybe you can fiddle in an RP here) about a foot below where the pin used to sit.

Now, let the flames be thrown ...

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,759
Patrik wrote:WHAT?? Replacing a pin with a bolt (on C'est la Vie)? I thought Eldo replacements was "like for like"....
Patrik -
If you read through the application you will see that there was a like-for-like attempt, but the pin cannot be replaced.
The pitch changed when the pin broke.
If the climbing community wants to restore the fixed protection that had been there, a bolt as a replacement seems to be the best that can be done.
If not, a vote to let the route stay changed will make it official.
Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266

One thing I love about the rappel anchor on Whales Tail is the way the rap slowly curves over the face, perfect for beginners. I trust you will keep the anchors in such a place. Overall it makes a ton of sense.

VRP · · Morrison, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 45

More info and history regarding the new route from Jeff Lowe:
supertopo.com/climbers-foru…

Steve Sangdahl · · eldo sprngs, co · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 735

Anyone know when the last day to vote on the current applications is?

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,759
Steve Sangdahl wrote:Anyone know when the last day to vote on the current applications is?
I think July 13th, the date of the next ACE meeting at the Spot.
EDJ Johnson · · Eldorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 110

If you haven't had a chance to check this route out, have a look and vote too!

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Patrik wrote:WHAT?? Replacing a pin with a bolt (on C'est la Vie)? I thought Eldo replacements was "like for like". What politics has changed? In this case, is it time to replace the pins on "Over the Hill" with bolts as well? A pin failure on Over the Hill is A LOT more serious (hitting a ledge) than a fall at the missing pin on C'est la Vie (fall in space). On top of this, you get two great cam placements (even though one is only an aid piece, such as a black Alien, but maybe you can fiddle in an RP here) about a foot below where the pin used to sit. Now, let the flames be thrown ...

Just started climbing in Eldo last year, but I recently climbed P1 of C'est la vie and I have to say I agree with Patrick. It did feel bold, but never dangerous. I remember being able to sew it up pretty good. I'm not exactly sure though, where was the pin at? I have to say that I think adding a bolt would take away some of the boldness factor...
Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,759
Stagg54 wrote: Just started climbing in Eldo last year, but I recently climbed P1 of C'est la vie and I have to say I agree with Patrick. It did feel bold, but never dangerous. I remember being able to sew it up pretty good. I'm not exactly sure though, where was the pin at? I have to say that I think adding a bolt would take away some of the boldness factor...
The bent pin had been roughly midway between the two bolts on P1.
This is an interesting special case - ACE exists for the purpose of keeping route conditions as similar as possible to the FA. That means that bold or dangerous routes shall remain bold/dangerous and that G-rated routes shall remain G-rated. The pin was a (questionable) piece of fixed pro at the crux of that pitch for decades that caught hundreds of falls. If it were possible to replace the pin in a like-for-like manner it would have already been done (someone tried) - but since it cannot, which is more important?:

A. Maintaining the fixed pro status quo in the only manner possible?
B. Letting the route change so that the experience of the leader is quite different than before?

The looseness of the block where the pin had been complicates the conundrum but isn't the main point.
Patrik · · Third rock from Sun · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 30

Here's the ultimate solution to keeping the route the same:
The old pin was sticking out about an inch and a half (and mightily crooked, but that's probably happened after the first ascent), so let's put in a 1/4" bolt and let it stick out about an inch or so. That would be as close to the original line as doable. For those who don't like it, plug in a bomber Lowe Ball and a decent cam a foot below.

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,759

Reminder:
There will be a public meeting at The Spot in Boulder at 7:00pm on Monday for the final discussion and in-person voting.

Martin Harris · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 200

Glad to see most ppl are voting yes to the bolt. My opinion is when the old mank we clip today was new it was confidence inspiring on the FA. Over the years pins and 1/4 inch bolts get old rusty bent not so confidence inspiring. So a nice new bolt is probably closer to the way the route felt in the original style. Just my 2 cents.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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