Adding 3rd leg/backing up legs on static line TR Anchor systems

Hey everyone,

So I have a bit of theorycrafting to throw out to you, as I'm having trouble wrapping my brain about this. A professional guide taught me what appears to be a common AMGA anchor setup involving static line. I've seen it referenced several times but haven't seen a definitive name for the system (he called it "FEMA," but it was his coining), so I'll just describe it: you start with 1 bomber anchor (preferably natural - usually a tree or massive boulder), which you tie off to make a fixed line (usually a bowline around a tree). You then walk to the edge, tie an emergency knot (we used alpine butterflies) to clip on direct for safety, pull out some more line and tie a BFK as your master point, then build a second leg with the remaining length that you leave adjustable (clove hitch) in order to easily equalize the system in the end.

System works great, especially if you have two trees close enough to the ledge, but the one downside is that I don't see a good way of adding additional legs. I've climbed with people who prefer a minimum of 3 legs on anchors (common for cordellette anchors), even if both of the anchors are absolutely bomb-proof. Suggestions?

One suggestion I heard was to build the adjustable leg with two or more smaller legs, equalized to one another via a cordellette or something similar...but this would only provide additional equalization/redundancy on the one leg, and you'd be no better off if the first leg failed. While I would totally do this if the second anchor were marginal, I don't see the point if it's a solid anchor (again: naturals, bolts...not talking trad pro for this scenario).

What do you guys think?

Since we assume it's the pieces that need redundancy, you're correct that adding extra cordelette loops to the same piece doesn't matter.

Now, question what pieces actually need to be redundant. A good guideline is the 12-point system
blog.alpineinstitute.com/20…

So really, 1 larger tree = 2 solid bolts = 3 or 4 pieces. I personally will just belay off a single large tree or horn. Sometimes I'll throw a cam in and clove hitch it. Sometimes not. I am mindful though if potential cutting so I make sure there are no sharp edges or at least double up the legs in case one fails.

I've got friends who won't use anything less than 4 great pieces and 2 large trees. They climb slow. Climbing protection is all about being just good enough. Hopefully that level of 'good enough' doesn't far exceed what you actually need to hold a fall.

Keep in mind that it's the ANCHOR that needs to be redundant, such that the failure of a single component doesn't kill everyone. In the case you describe, you can cut down one of the trees, or chop one strand of static rope, and guess what? You are still alive.

I am seeing more and more of a creeping definition of redundancy that I call "irrational safetyism". It's hard to describe, but it shows up when people want EACH LEG of the type of anchor you describe to be SRENE.

Think about this - What if there were two equalized pieces on one leg of the static rope, and a single piece of gear on the other leg of the static. Would that freak you out? It shouldn't - there's 3 pieces, and it totally meets the SRENE criteria. (Think of it as a giant cordelette type anchor)

Yeah, it's pretty silly. I did find an easy solution, though: just put in a piece and create an independent third arm that you clip into the belay anchors. It's still arguably pointless, but I guess the plus side is it would hold in the event of total knot failure, and it satisfies the "3 arm" fanatics.

Ted Pinson wrote:It's still arguably pointless, but I guess the plus side is it would hold in the event of total knot failure, and it satisfies the "3 arm" fanatics.

Two trees are super bomber, really no need to go any further. Like has been said, a cordelette is used to equalize gear placements which have a lot more potential to pull out (depending on how well we evaluate/place the gear) then a well rooted solid tree has of falling over while you're tied to it. Two trees falling while you're tied to them? Good lord then it's simply your time to die my friend.

Don't worry about "knot failure" - just make sure you are backing up your bowline with a safety knot (double fisherman) Also, no need to clove the second leg - that means an extra sling and biner and can be fiddly with thick static line.

Try this with a single 100 ft. length of 11mm static line. I learned it at an REI clinic taught by an old trad climber and have been using it for a few years and love it - it's beyond safe and once you get it down doing it the same way every time is easy at any wooded crag:

At cliff edge, tie a barrel knot in one end of the rope and leave it at the edge - this will be a "safety strand" (if you want to use it and assuming you have enough rope.) From here run the rope back to tree #1, or if you don't want/need a safety strand just start at tree #1. Tie a bowline with safety knot on tree #1. Run the rope back to the edge. Attach to your "safety strand" via a prussik clipped to your belay loop and locked before approaching the egde, or just be careful. Drape a loop over the edge that will eventually be doubled to become your BFK. Now run the rope back to tree #2 (without changing the amount of rope you have forming your loop at the edge)and tie another bowline with a safety knot. You have now formed a "V" - make sure to watch your angle doesn't get too wide - you want it as narrow as possible. Now go back to the edge, clip back into your prussik (for safety if desired) and pull all the slack out of both legs, position for direction of pull and tie your BFK. Pad the edge if sharp. Clip with two lockers opposite and opposed and also clip the extra loop coming out of the back of the BFK to make sure your system is closed.

Load the rope and hang a truck off it. Super duper extra bomber, uses no gear other than biners and works most anywhere climbs are located in the woods. Consider taking the REI class or some other such clinic to learn this method if you like.

I think the solution to the "my friends need an n-point anchor" problem is to get new friends.

Not to get into the safety / non safety of a huge tree as a bomber anchor, here's a technique I've used while creating & equalizing 3 point anchors using a single static line, which I think was part of the OP's question:

First, tie off your best piece at one end of the line...bowline, 8, clove whatever.

Then run the line to the edge and tie a clove where you will have the master point. Could use a fig. 8 on a bight but a clove will allow you to adjust and equalize later.

Then run the line to your other 2 pieces and tie one of these: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubl…. Lots of stuff on youtube for how to tie this knot. Clip one of the loops to each piece. The length on each of the 'bunny ear' loops can be adjusted to equalize, or you can extend them with slings. This works better if the 2 pieces are relatively close together.

Lastly go back to your master point and adjust the clove so that both legs of static line are under appropriate tension given your predicted direction of pull.

Boom, 3 piece anchor from 1 piece of static line. It's not truly equalized (0.33 / 0.33 / 0.33) between the three pieces, it's equalized between your best piece (takes 0.5 of the load) and your secondary/tertiary pieces (each takes 0.25 of the load). That's why you put the bowline/clove on the best piece and the bunny ears on the 2 crappy pieces.

One nice trick for getting both legs of the static line the right length so your TR hangs dead center..

Tie off the first end of the static line. Back yourself up, and tie your BFK or 2 figure 8's whatever you use as your master point, throw your lockers on and set up your climbing rope. This way, when you go to anchor the second line of static, you have the weight of the climbing rope to guide you so you don't end up pulling your master point up too high, or not enough to keep it center.

Has definitely saved me some time in adjusting the legs of the static rope, but then again I don't typically anchor one end with a clove hitch.

DEF wrote:One nice trick for getting both legs of the static line the right length so your TR hangs dead center.. Tie off the first end of the static line. Back yourself up, and tie your BFK or 2 figure 8's whatever you use as your master point, throw your lockers on and set up your climbing rope. This way, when you go to anchor the second line of static, you have the weight of the climbing rope to guide you so you don't end up pulling your master point up too high, or not enough to keep it center. Has definitely saved me some time in adjusting the legs of the static rope, but then again I don't typically anchor one end with a clove hitch.

The clove hitch just makes adjusting the second leg easier, but there's no reason one can't do what you describe with a different knot.

The big reason to do this is that there's no need to work at the edge, as one would be doing if they anchored both legs THEN tied the powerpoint knot.