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Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

I guess he missed the part about the SCC's own Jeb Orr's bolts being some of the ones that were slated for removal.

And no I don't know the name of of the route.

And no the folks from the SCC that I emailed, who are supposed to be the go to names for the SCC in Alabama have not said a word. Are they uninvolved, inactive, inept, or just too good for Mountain Project? I believe they owe you an answer to your question, Wes. But, other than what I've already done, I don't know how to make em give it to ya.

In other news...yesterday was a rare gift of killer climbing weather for late June in the Deep South. I hope everybody got out and took advantage. We had a blast at the home crag up this way.

Bob M · · Alpharetta, GA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 50

Why is the SCC MIA?

There was an SCC event at an SCC owned crag, where there was apparently lots of discussion about a controversial subject. The SCC should be providing the public some info.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

clique
klēk,klik/
noun
a small group of people, with shared interests or other features in common, who spend time together and do not readily allow others to join them.
synonyms: coterie, set, circle, ring, in-crowd, group;

"I can address one question that was raised, ie, board membership and why no elections. We do not want the board to become a popularity contest or filled with people with different or extreme agendas lobbing to get voted onto the board. For example, a non-climber with no knowledge of the area, or someone too extreme in their views (bolt everything!). If a position arises or there is a belief someone should be added, then there is an internal vote whether to bring that person on board. There are no written qualifications, nor will there ever be, but the guiding tenants are whether that person has a like minded desire to further climbing in the Southeast and also a "what can they add to the board" factor. We do try and keep in mind the location of the person, but that is not a driving factor. If we get top heavy in some area, so be it. If we think we need to increase an areas board representation, then that may be a factor.

ciao
gus"

Same, same?

Until this bunch implements term limits they are, by definition and by their own admission, very much a clique. The recent stonewalling and circling of the wagons in a feeble attempt to save face only serves to drive home this point. I know board members on both sides of this issue. Currently those who favor term limits seem to be outgunned.

What say you?

Tom Beirne · · Seattle · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 136

Has anyone applied as a BM volunteer and been rejected?

DavisMeschke Guillotine · · Pinedale, WY · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 225

I think implementing term limits is a very reasonable request.

Scott Phil · · NC · Joined May 2010 · Points: 258
DavisMeschke wrote:I think implementing term limits is a very reasonable request.
Not only is it reasonable, but it is widely viewed as a "best practice." I am unaware of any other non-profits that do not use it or something similar.
wwes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 0

Well, Ben has once again told us that there are retro bolts at Yellow Bluff without actually "naming" any of them. And apparently the guy that discovered the crag didn't "name" any either. I'm not sure why we're putting that in quotes.

Anyhow, I did recently speak to my Supreme Dark Overlords at the SCC. Although I believe they're still ironing out details on what the official action is going to be, they were willing to give me the list of all the confirmed retro bolts at Yellow Bluff. Ben, get your guidebook and your pencil ready. I don't think you'll need pictures. Here's the list:

#1 - Tilt-a-Whirl

That's right, there's just one. The only confirmed retro bolt of an established trad route at Yellow Bluff is the same route that we knew was a retro bolt before anybody even went there. Before any meetings. Well, actually it's not a complete retro bolt, it's 2-3 bolts I think, but whatever, I'll give it to you. There is one. But this is really great guys, this is even funnier than I expected. I mean, I knew 50% was an exaggeration, I just didn't realize that it was complete and total bullshit. I was expecting to hear that there were like 3 or 4 retro bolts, but this is really hilarious. Bravo, Ben - I've never seen anybody conjure such a shit storm out of thin air. Really though, the only frustrating parts of this whole thing were being called deeply ignorant by an internet troll and being stupid enough to argue with someone who so clearly doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Until you can bother to "name" what the retro bolts are, I hope nobody else makes my mistake of paying any attention to anything you say.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

I call bullshit. Jeb Orr didn't bolt Tilt A Whirl and one of his routes is one they WERE gonna chop before they got butthurt about who said what to whom when. So if they are now sayin it is just one they are as big a liar as they called Ben.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

I'll tell ya some'n else now that I'm pissed again and all bets are officially off as to me continuing to be nice. I know it. They know I know it. And calling ME a liar like they called Ben will be a colossal fuck up on their part. Remember where ya heard it.

DavisMeschke Guillotine · · Pinedale, WY · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 225

wwes I think you're going a bit too far. It seems you've latched on to this retro-bolting thing when the real issue seems to be a lack of transparency with the organization dedicated to be the voice for climbing in the southeast. Not only that, but the gross lack of communication that organization has been having with its constituency. I believe Ben's overall point these last few weeks has been the fact that climbing in the southeast is taking a deadly turn in terms of ethics and history. But all you've seemed to do is reiterate the same "bullshit" no matter the topic of conversation. I think you've made your point. So maybe it's time to put aside our differences and actually work to protect the areas and passions we all hold dear? No doubt we're all very passionate about this issue; if only we could channel that passion towards a collective goal.

Cheers

wwes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 0

The last couple of meetings and all this MP discussion weren't started because of term limits and transparency. Not primarily anyhow. I was at the Atlanta meeting and term limits and transparency made up a pretty small fraction of what was discussed. I wasn't at the Huntsville meeting, but I hear it was "insane" and that there was a lot of shouting. I have a feeling people weren't shouting about term limits. People that have renounced support for the SCC seem to be doing it more for the SCC's "bolt the world" mentality than their lack of transparency. Even the terms "ethics and history" seem to mostly come down to bolts. If term limits and transparency are now the main issues, then fine. But let's not forget that this started out with accusing the SCC of a shady land deal, of bolting the world with the UNFoundation, of endorsing/allowing retro bolts at YB, etc., all of which appears to be largely untrue, not to mention insulting the SCC in general, personally insulting individual board members, insulting SCC membership, etc. All this sort of stuff does is start fights and harm the SCC, so it seems a bit disingenuous to me to start acting like we're all just a reasonable group of people here to have a level headed discussion about SCC transparency issues. And if that's really what we want to accomplish, it shouldn't come packaged with slander and misinformation.

So I've heard the words retro bolt a lot more than I've heard the words term limits and transparency - it seemed appropriate to determine just what has actually been retro bolted. But you're right, people should be working together instead of arguing. And I'm sure that some people have absolutely legitimate problems with the SCC that should absolutely be discussed, like term limits and transparency issues. Those do sound totally reasonable. But it's difficult to talk constructively and work together on those things when people are busy arguing over things that aren't really true to begin with. Baseless accusations don't help anything, they just distract from fixing real problems. I think the first step in working together to fix problems should be determining which ones are real.

And you should be careful using words like "collective" around these guys. Sounds a little socialist to me.

Bob M · · Alpharetta, GA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 50

Actually, this thread started as a recap of the SCC community forum that was held at Stone Summit, and the retros at YB were just one of the topics. I'd like to hear the outcome of the YB discussion from one of the Supreme Dark Overlords, since it seems like there's some discrepancy now, and I'd like to hear the plan for the other topics as well.

If I thought they actually had a reasonable plan, maybe I'd even donate some money, but for now, I think I'll keep my dollars.

And that bit Paul posted about why they don't have elections is just ridiculous.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

A little honesty would go a long way here. People know things they aren't tellin...plain and simple. And some at the SCC feel like they are too good for MP...unless they can use it to tout their access victories.

That bit about elections came from the same guy that posted comments here...

mountainproject.com/v/10653…

And here...

mountainproject.com/v/10637…

And here...

mountainproject.com/v/10637…

And here...

mountainproject.com/v/10637…

As well as pics of routes off of SCC property at Steele.

So it's not like they don't come here and post. They're just too good for this thread even though this is where the hard questions are being asked. Lame.

wwes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 0

Paul, it looks like those second two links you posted are comments from Gus pointing out that pictures uploaded by Ben are of routes that are not on SCC property. Do I have that right?

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Wes.
I have said it before and I will write it down one more time....
I am not going to provide a list.

And your calling me out about it repeatedly, when I have told you that more than once, reeks of desperation.
Indeed, you do seem angry...

No matter how many times you call them "baseless accusations"...
Whether or not I am called a "liar" on the internet, but not so much at the walk through...
Considering that the scalded dog of the SCC quit before the meeting, seemingly so that he feels he has the freedom to call me an "asshole"...
And whether or not my accusations are 100% airtight and rock solid...
It does not change the facts.

You can listen to me or not....
It seems that there are a lot of others who may be paying attention, at least.
You've seen people respond in support of the "traditionalist agenda" I and others are pushing.

I stand by my position concerning Y.B...there are retros, bad bolting, permadraws, etc.
No one has provided any evidence to the contrary, the SCC was lied to about their Land Trust-owned crag, and now it seems the locals, in the interest of "convenience" and as a show of solidarity, have trounced/silenced the Board.
Of course, it may be that we just need to wait a little longer...
And BE PATIENT.

Your buddies at the SCC told you they are "working towards" a course of action??
Why haven't they addressed that on their site or to any of us, directly?
If they really want to play ignorant and say that they have been provided no more NAMED ROUTES, that RIGHT THERE is your evidence that something is amiss.

To those of us on this side of the fence, Yellow Bluff is just a small facet of a bigger issue.
One that guys like Bob, it seems, don't want to support.
And I know of ten to twenty guys who are of a similar socio-economic situation as Bob who have withdrawn support of the "Mickey Mouse Club", as one put it.

There are others of us....
Folks that could assist "the collective" if interests were better aligned.
As an example, I can build a composting crapper in a day, with help....and would be pleased do install one at the TWall or elsehwere....
But guys like you and your friends at the SCC seem determined to screw things up for the rest of us.
That's the bigger issue.
And it is one that needed illumination.

I plan to reside and rock climb, in ALABAMA, the rest of my life.
And, I get out....a lot.
I also live next door to the SCC, as you know.
If I see something wrong, in Alabama, I aim to fix it.
That's the totality of my agenda.

Criticize away, W, w, w, Wes.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
wwes wrote:Paul, it looks like those second two links you posted are comments from Gus pointing out that pictures uploaded by Ben are of routes that are not on SCC property. Do I have that right?
Sure is.
See the date?
So, the deal is that the SCC never actually published or poted their property boundaries until this year.
So, at the time, I actually did not know I was off SCC land.
I have since taken down all non-SCC pics/comments of mine, but you cannot delete a pic with a comment.
I have asked John/saxfiend/MP-admin to assist in cleaning up the MP page, but have been ignored.

It was only until I raised a stink about the helmeted legions behind my house and the need to post boundaries that anyone ever tried to define them.
Now that the issue has been raised, now that it has been suggested that the SCC curtail climbing/access off of their land, there's all sorts of butthurt going around.

If you wanna address Steele, we can.
I will say this, it'll be counterproductive and could very well lead to some serious ramifications if you wanna go live with this topic.
I have already made my peace with the SCC after they stepped up to the plate, marked their boundaries, and have addressed the issue with their area reps.
Like Deep Creek, we've all moved on.

You may wanna check Matt and Jason's take on it, beforehand.
But, by all means, Wes.....
Ask away.
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Of all those links you find something else to jump on Ben about but nary a comment on the fact that board members post here, read here, but refuse to answer YOUR question, Wes? Really?

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
Paul Barnes wrote:Of all those links you find something else to jump on Ben about but nary a comment on the fact that board members post here, read here, but refuse to answer YOUR question, Wes? Really?
Clearly, he is mad at me about something.
I think it's his moral high-ground that's getting the better of him.
wwes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 0

Ben said:
And whether or not my accusations are 100% airtight and rock solid...
I stand by my position concerning Y.B... there are retros, bad bolting,permadraws, etc.
I am not going to provide a list...
No one has provided any evidence to the contrary...

This guy said I hate logic.

Paul, my question WAS answered by a board member, almost as soon as I asked him. You guys immediately called it a lie, as I knew you would, which is why I was asking you guys to tell me in the first place. The SCC telling me there is only one named retro bolt is not evidence to me that something is amiss, because nobody else has named more than one either. If you don't like being called an asshole, you shouldn't call people deeply ignorant when they ask you simple questions that you don't want to answer directly. Now I'm being accused of taking the moral high ground by someone whose entire argument is ethics, history and tradition. This entire scenario is totally insane. Good luck everyone.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern States
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