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4th of July Weekend Crowds

Original Post
Lothian Buss · · Durango, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 15

Do we expect the crags to be extra crowded this coming holiday weekend?

Or do we expect that climbers will be eating hamburgers and setting off fireworks with their non climbing friends, leading to normal crowds at the crags?

MaxSuffering · · KVNY · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

I'd avoid the Gunks, but I'd give that advice on any weekend. Where are you looking to climb? If you use a little imagination you can find great routes unoccupied any weekend of the summer. There's also the old trick of getting up early and beating the crowds.

Lothian Buss · · Durango, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 15

Yeah, I was thinking off the beaten path. Kanc crags instead of cannon, or maybe an Adirondack crag with an ugly approach. Sarah just wants the crag to herself.

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
Lothian Buss wrote:... or maybe an Adirondack crag with an ugly approach.
This.
MaxSuffering · · KVNY · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

No need to go off the beaten path in the Adirondacks or do an ugly approach... I'm willing to bet you can find classic and unoccupied routes right off the road all weekend. I'm convinced that 95% of people do 10% of the routes here.

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,847
sara pax wrote: It's true! I'm convinced that due to some totally wacky circumstances I'll have the Gunks all to myself this weekend. It's gonna be great! I'll let you all know how that goes...
Long weekend equals take a longer road trip. The Dacks with be a nightmare!
MaxSuffering · · KVNY · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

Nightmare? Only if you're waiting in line for Frosted Mug, Gamesmanship, Pete's Farewell or one of the other routes everybody ques up for. If you just try being a little original you'll have no problem finding three, four and five-star routes here with nobody on them anytime you want. I don't think I've waited in line for a route in the Adirondacks for years... well maybe not years, but close enough.

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
MaxSuffering wrote:Nightmare? Only if you're waiting in line for Frosted Mug, Gamesmanship, Pete's Farewell or one of the other routes everybody ques up for. If you just try being a little original you'll have no problem finding three, four and five-star routes here with nobody on them anytime you want. I don't think I've waited in line for a route in the Adirondacks for years... well maybe not years, but close enough.
But those ARE the classic routes, and two posts up you said they would be open. (?)
Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
rocknice2 wrote: Long weekend equals take a longer road trip. The Dacks with be a nightmare!
It will definitely be busy both hiking, campers, and climbers. The long approach is definitely useful if you're looking for solitude. The 4th has always been a busy weekend for the ADKs when there's an extra day off involved. People who wouldn't normally visit for 2 days will make the road trip for 3. I would even expect a lot of people to take Thursday off as well based on the decent (note - not perfect) forecast. That's just how it is.

It doesn't mean you'll definitely wait in line, but it happens. It happens even on non-holiday weekends. Max has selective amnesia or has just been lucking out. I'm sure they sit at the bottom of every classic ADK climb every weekend day doing their traffic survey.
MaxSuffering · · KVNY · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0
Kevin Heckeler wrote: But those ARE the classic routes, and two posts up you said they would be open. (?)
Nope Kevin, I did NOT say those routes would be open, or even that every classic route would be open. Those routes will probably be hopelessly crowded, and that's my point entirely: If you want to do the routes everyone else does you'll wait in line.

Frosted Mug booked solid? Tequila Mockingbird and several other four-star routes are just around the corner. The El? Skip it and do Wald-Calder. The Prince may not be quite the gem it's made out to be but it sure beats standing around at the base of Quadrophenia or Hesitation for an hour or two. Roaches got the top-rope train running all day? Coffee Achievers is every bit as good and almost never occupied. Brrright Star? One of the best pitches nobody does. Tanager Face? Chapel pond Gully Cliff? Bear Den? Highway Blues?

Hell, I haven't even mentioned Silver Lake yet... how many people have done Great Norther Diver, Hairy Upper Lip drip, Adirondack Iron, Tooth & Nail, Rico's Roughnecks? Some awesome pitches and some of them may not even get climbed this weekend.

Then of course you could go somewhere other than the High Peaks region. Anybody been to Rods & Guns wall? I haven't, looks cool. Good Luck Cliff? Eagle Falls? You may see other climbers, but not like at the Beer Walls.

Like I said 95% of climbers come to the Adirondacks to do 10% of the available routes. I haven't been lucking out at all, just putting a little thought into my day rather than following the crowd. Although I could be wrong since as you point out Kevin I do not sit at the bottom of routes doing traffic surveys... because I don't wait at the bottom of routes at all. (See how that works?)
Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616

The 'classics' are that for a reason, and climbed a lot because of those reasons. I wouldn't consider everything you posted to be great, some of it very good and places/routes I've climbed myself, but hardly apples to apples replacements.

The Beer Walls is a bad idea, because as you say people will wander off to other routes when the classic ones are plugged, further contributing the general suck of the place being overrun. I've been there on weekends like this. It just aint worth it, not with as you say so much more available elsewhere.

Giving advice on the internet is tough - you may have completely different experience than the next guy. My experience with holiday weekends has rarely been good, with regards to climbing in the highest traffic zones.

Going back to the points made - walking a bit further (than 'cragging' would normally entail) ensures you'll at least get some route selection, possibly some solitude. I find it absurd to argue otherwise.

The Prince is a bit of an approach for one climb. It's one of the contributing factors to it not being overrun all the time. In comparison, Quadrophenia is also a longish approach (at least it's a decent few feet of elevation gain up to it), but because of its reputation (and actual quality) people suck it up and head up anyway. Because it's a bit of a haul and there's limited alternate quality moderates there, they camp out at the bottom and end up in a long conga line to the top of the route. Quadrophenia is that much better than the Prince that climbers are willing to pay a price to get on it. There's a lot of examples where the alternative options are relatively poor for a 5.7-5.8 leader. It's not always easy to just say "walk around, there's other quality routes at that grade". Heck, I think The Prince is the only climb at the King Wall easier than 5.10

Silver Lake - last I heard getting to the routes is quite an adventure (overgrown 'paths', difficult to find bases, etc). It's a perfect example of what we're saying - unlikely to see many people there even on a holiday weekend, because of the 30-60 minute approaches.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Everyone's waiting in line this weekend... Sitting in front of the Mountaineer and ADK cafe waiting for the light to change.

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
Bill Kirby wrote: Everyone's waiting in line this weekend... Sitting in front of the Mountaineer and ADK cafe waiting for the light to change.
Not me, won't be anywhere near the high peaks. ;-)
Joy likes trad · · Southern California · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 71
sara pax wrote:I definitely wouldn't head to the crag this weekend if I were you, especially the gunks. Go fishing or something.
East coast crags fill up on national holidays? I seems to remember the crags being empty on the fourth out here. Every one is at home with family and friends or at the beach.
Luc-514 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 12,506

Have to think peregrine closures too...

Screw the Dacks, let's all go to Rumney!
;o)

New York DEC
Adirondack Rock Climbing Route Closures

MaxSuffering · · KVNY · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

Just out of curiosity Kevin which of the routes I've mentioned specifically have you done so you can say I'm not giving an apples to apples comparison? I base my recomendations on actual experience with the routes in question, not what I've heard. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion about what constitutes a "classic" route but I'll stand by my statement that there is high quality climbing available even on holiday weekends if you just look for it. People "wander off to other routes?" Nope, that's my point entirely: they typically do not.

I agree that walking a little farther will open up all kinds of options, but The Prince is "a bit of an approach?" More "than 'cragging' would normally entail?" Seriously? It's like 20 minutes, same for Quadrophenia -the far end of the Trapps takes longer to hike to than either of those routes. Silver Lake approaches are pretty tame in my opinion, even the Summit Cliff is only slightly longer than the previously mentioned pair. In lots of areas an hour approach is considered roadside and does nothing to keep crowds away. Are Northeastern climbers really that lazy?

Another top-secret tip from a local for dealing with holiday crowds: get out of bed early. Several years ago (coincidentally on 4th of July weekend) my wife and I did Quadrophenia. We were the first ones there, climbed the whole route, did the descent and took a lap on Forever Wild. As she was following the next group showed up... and we bailed and headed to the family BBQ. I'd hazard to say that if you're at the base of virtually any route in the Adirondacks much before 7:30 crowds won't be an issue.

Of course if you like to sleep in late, think a 30 minute approach constitutes a backcountry route or just have to do that one well known route everybody else came for too you're pretty much screwed.

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

climbing friend,

if your classic route is occupied, you must simply launch off series of bottle rocket at the climbing party, in hopes they either rappel down to safety opening the route for you to flash, or perhaps their rope will sustain burning fire damage from the bottle rocket and the problem will solve itself.

may you enjoy your sparklings and excessive amounts of poor-quality meat and cheap, watery tasting beer used to celebrate this country of united states.

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
MaxSuffering wrote:...Are Northeastern climbers really that lazy?...Of course if you like to sleep in late, think a 30 minute approach constitutes a backcountry route or just have to do that one well known route everybody else came for too you're pretty much screwed.
You assume too much. Enjoy looking down at us from your perch.
MaxSuffering · · KVNY · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

What am I incorrectly assuming? Enlighten me.

Also, I'm not looking down on anybody... just stating facts as I see them based on my experience. If it comes off differently it's not intended.

Jim Lawyer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 6,116

Crowds in the Dacks? Seriously? There's more than 3100+ routes here (not counting the 140+ new routes since the beginning of last summer). What MaxSuffering says -- if you want THE one-and-only mega classic route at your roadside cliff, then be prepared to wait. With a little imagination and 2 minutes with the guidebook you can have a cliff entirely to yourself with, yes, classic routes. That's what I do, and I sleep late.

What's a busy day at Poke-O? 10 parties? There's 400 routes there. (Yeah, I know a part of the cliff is closed until August. 300 routes then.)

A name like MaxSuffering makes me question his or her definition of "classic". I can assure you the advice is SPOT ON.

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

the problem with those 400 rts @ Poco is most of them are hard;)

the rest of your advice is spot on. one of my very fond memories was hikeing out to tunnel vision and it was mobbed. Got on a 5 star climb of the same grade about 100 ft right of the conga line that was amazeing!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
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