GPS or device to track vertical route

I've been looking for a device that I can climb with that will track my vertical route. The only one I have found that could fit my needs is the Garmin Fenix 3. The main issue I keep reading about on other forums, mostly from triathlon athletes, is when you upload your tracks your route is not accurate, it can be off by 15m.

I don't need it for navigation, I have a GPSMAP 64st as well as a compass and paper topo's I take with me.

I would love to have something that I could use as a digital reference for beta.

Has anyone used a device to track vertical routes before?
Is this realistic or am I being to statistical?

A high quality GPS with an integrated barometer/altimeter can get impressive accuracy, probably much better than 15m. Your 64st is actually one such GPS! (The Fenix isn't really) However accuracy can suffer on the side of large rock walls or in deep gulleys.

I think more than accuracy, your challenge is going to be visualizing the track. A traditional map is a terrible way to map a vertical climb. Maybe if you had some computer chops, you could take the raw USGS LiDAR topo data, rotate the perspective, and produce some maps that show the side of the cliff face? That, or geoanchor a photo of the cliff and project your track onto the photo.

However while that's actually a really fascinating challenge, you are probably overthinking things. What problem are you really trying to solve, where you need accuracy within a few meters on the side of a cliff face? Following bolt lines and cracks, perhaps with the help of a photo or two, is really not so bad. There are routes that are a bit tougher to follow, but as you develop your routefinding abilities you'll be able to spot even those, and once you've climbed them once you'll remember where to go.

The main issue I have with using my 64st is exactly that, it doesn't track well for cliffs and gully's like you mentioned.
What I currently do is overlay my photos on my google earth topo layer then try to overly may tracks on that. It works well for mountaineering but not so well for climbing. The recorded track is to messy and lacks the definition I'm looking for.

What I would really like is two devices, one for the belay and one for the climber. These devices could reference each other to pinpoint more accurately the x and y axis. With the belayer being stationary, it would provide a good base point to measure from.

I wear a Suunto core. It tracks elevation fairly well, and I love using it in the mountains to track progress. It sounds like you may be looking for something more, but don't fail to check out Suunto watches. The ambit3 might work well for you.

What do you want to do with the track?

If the 64st is not working well enough, you're up a creek- those are pretty much top-grade backcountry GPS. You could try turning on GLONASS, the extra satellites might help.

What you really need in those conditions though is an INS, but they are not really something you can buy off the shelf like a GPS.

I am a little obsessed with collecting data. I can accurately track my approach but not my climb. I wish there was a device that had a barometer, altimeter, gps and a IMU. IMU's are primarily used is aviation and space exploration, unfortunatly not for rock climbing.

Are you an engineer? You could make your own mini-GPS system, placing radio transmitters at 3 known locations in clear view of the wall, and triangulating their transmissions on an Arduino. That would work for walls, not for canyons- radio is just really bad in deep canyons, it bounces all over the place.

But, again, while that's a fascinating project (I'm an engineer), I think you should try to let go a little more and just enjoy the experience. Take more photos, if it helps. Tracks are very handy for navigation and planning, but do little to catalog the emotion of the experience.

If the rout is to long you could use say on orange spot on your back and track it with cameras and then triangulate. That might work better in the canyons then the radio idea, but long climbs would quickly become a problem.

I am not sure how well a GPS would work on a wall since you would effectively block 50% of the available GPS satellites. I would buy it from someone with a flexible return policy as it very well might not work as you want. Also, relying on GPS data for elevation can be inaccurate. I run right next to the ocean (like 20' away on the beach) and when I get home and look at the data, the elevation is everywhere from 0' to 150'. On my Garmin, however, which I use for biking, the elevation data is much more accurate, although still not perfect.

20 kN wrote:I am not sure how well a GPS would work on a wall since you would effectively block 50% of the available GPS satellites.

That, and I suspect you would suffer from lots of reflections (like in a canyon) because you are right on a flat rock wall.

20 kN wrote:relying on GPS data for elevation can be inaccurate

This is where the barometer comes in, a high end GPS will often have a barometer for measuring elevation and use the GPS elevation data for calibrating the barometer. GPS elevation responds slowly and has jitter; barometric elevation responds very quickly and accurately but drifts over time with the weather and time of day. It's a pretty neat combination of technologies. You could actually think of it as a very rudimentary GPS/INS

Samsung note 3 and Google "my tracks". Probably not the most accurate, but I use to to track my bushwacks, and it did pretty well on my last one that had something like 2000ft gain in 1/2mi. And its super simple to get an overlay in " maps" or "earth"

With little to no luck on finding what I'm looking for, I think google is on the right track to create what I'm looking for.
Google Project Tango
It looks like they are developing heavily on sensor and camera based 3D tracking. Internally, the hardware will track movement on 3-axis. This could potentially be used to track vertical accents. As this tech evolves, its only a matter of time before a device hits the market that will cater to climbing.

Another thing I'm excited about is Google Project Ara With both of these projects based on Android, developers could integrate Project Tango into a module for Project Ara.

Max Forbes wrote:I wear a Suunto core. It tracks elevation fairly well, and I love using it in the mountains to track progress. It sounds like you may be looking for something more, but don't fail to check out Suunto watches. The ambit3 might work well for you.

I'm a mountain lover.I wear a Suunto core too. It can be used as a altimeter,a compass and a barometer. It helped me a lot.