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One thing keeps me from trad climbing

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Brian morin · · Simi Valley, CA · Joined May 2015 · Points: 10

Want to start trad climbing but there's only one thing keeps me from doing it........fear of rope drag that walks my pro

How do you guys deal with this ESPECIALLY when climbing a new route for the first time? Do you fully extend every draw with 60cm/24" and 120cm/48" slings?

David Carey · · Morrison, CO · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 120

It is pretty simple once you learn how to read a route. Look up and ask yourself where will the rope be.

If there is a 5 foot roof, place gear below the roof so that a 4 ft sling will work. If it is a scary roof that you want more pro, protected it and then down climb back to clean it and then keep going or maybe just build an anchor just after the roof . These make some sick anchors with huge exposure which is fun anyways :) (just had a sweet 400 ft exposure free foot hang at the Black last weekend!) Same logic for traversing and wandering...Lastly, I carry 10-15 2 ftrs and 2 4 footers plus quick draws. Then the 4 footers are useful for 2 piece anchors too.

It just takes some experience but rope drag is part of climbing and deciding how to approach a climb.

It is not a big deal though and I have never walked a piece, so don't let it stop you. Mainly be careful with nuts and passive pro which I personally always extend with 2 ftrs.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492

Presumably you will get competent instruction on the mechanics of gear before you ever lead a trad route. Part of that instruction needs to address proper sling use. You will learn that some pieces can indeed handle some rope drag and basically take the drag away from other, more suspect pieces. I won't try to give an example here, but experienced trad leaders know what I'm talking about. (Short version - not all pieces "walk" and a solid piece can keep the rope movement away from others)

But the REAL answer - you need to follow a lot of trad pitches before you even think about placing gear. Keep your eyes open as you gain this valuable experience: notice which pieces are "quiet" and which ones are susceptible to being tugged on by the rope; ask the leader why they did it the way they did; examine each piece before you remove it to see how it was placed and what direction of force it can withstand.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Simple try your best to make a straight line from the belayer to the anchor by extending the rope with slings.

Doesn't mean you can always do it and sometimes you may leave gear short on purpose for safety when going through questionable spots. This may end up with alot of rope drag at the end but the only way to get good at it is with practice.

Find someone who climbs trad and have them go over the basics of placing gear, what to look for in the rock quality, how the gear should be properly placed, things to look for, etc. Follow some pitches on him so you can see how he places gear and than get him to recommend a good route you can sew up (easy route isn't always a good first route due to gear placement on it).

Than just go for it. A good route you can place gear every 5ft etc so even if you screw up a few pieces you should be fine and over time you will get better.

Matthew Williams 1 · · Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 85

I'm out there learning trad right now and my partner has been an immense help. From the belay below he can see the path of the rope more clearly than me, especially if the climbing is harder and I'm focused on not coming off. Also, unless the route wanders around a corner or over a roof, he can see most of the placements at a glance and let me know if something was not placed well, is wandering or if the rope drag could be helped by switching something up. I learn a lot by listening to him even though we are both pretty green. I love that trad is a team experience.

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

Nuts.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

Perhaps you could get on some wandering sport routes below you grade and practice extension. Then get lowered and evaluate you performance.

Climbing.com has some articles on sling extension that you can probably find easily with a search engine.

I'd been concerned about cams walking when I first got into trad, but found that when they did, it was either because I hadn't extended them well enough, or because the placements were kinda loose. Though I'm fairly certain the walking happened after I had a few piece in above them, or when I was bringing up the slack to belay my second. The more I've practiced placements and cleaned routes, the easier it's become to get cam placements that are unlikely to walk. Its not always possible, but I've found I can often find features in the rock that help keep the cam lobes in place. Practicing setting Pro on the ground was very helpful to me.

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25

Climb a lot and follow more experienced leaders when you can. It's not that complicated but it's not intuitive until you get a feel for it.

Or just climb straight splitters.

Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,648
Long Duk Dong wrote:Another ridiculous noob post.
Seriously, I rarely extend pieces and have never had this problem.
Tyson Anderson · · SLC, UT · Joined May 2007 · Points: 126

If that's your only fear then just put an extended alpine draw on every piece. This is overkill but with experience you will learn when you need to extend and when you don't.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
Brian morin wrote: Last thing in the world I want is to be caught in a situation where i feel rope drag and have to down climb to the problem piece to extend further


Well, there's one problem right there. I'd guess I've done this hundreds of times---usually just a few moves, but very occasionally more than that. It is surely best to get slingage right the first time around, but blundering on after you've got it wrong---and no matter how experienced you are you will sometimes get it wrong---is a prescription for a whole heap o' trouble further on.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

The biggest "mistake" new trad leaders make out here is not extending the pro

Even on straight up climbs, a failure can extend can mean the rope gets caught in the low angle cracks that are prevalent in squamish

Theres been several cases of multiple gear failure here where its likely that failure to extend contributed to the problem ... Were talking about cracks with textbook cam placements in solid granite

Most folks can learn quickly how to do good individual gear placements .... However how they behave as a system is much harder to explain

Whenever you get lowered off ... Look carefully at which pieces rotate or walk with the upward pull

As a beginner ... Just extend every cam with a draw unless yr afraid of decking or smacking a ledge ... Or use dragon cams

Remeber the rope always wants to go straight !!!

;)

Kevin DB · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 295
Long Duk Dong wrote:Another ridiculous noob post.
Well duh? I mean he's asking a valid question about something he doesn't know about yet that involves safety. Everybody was there at one time, no reason to be a jerk about it.
Jason Halladay · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 15,153
Kevin DB wrote: Well duh? I mean he's asking a valid question about something he doesn't know about yet that involves safety. Everybody was there at one time, no reason to be a jerk about it.
+1
budman · · Moab,UT · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 11

!WELCOME TO THE CLUB

Glenn Schuler · · Monument, Co. · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,330
Long Duk Dong wrote:Another ridiculous noob post.
Dong mcpoopypants is such an amazing badass!!!111!! All hail the shit boy.
Danny Hupp · · Boulder, CO · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 685

Let's see if I can add any useful information here...

My advice is always extend passive gear (I've kicked out a few nuts on accident that were insufficiently extended) and most active gear with a single-length spectra sling. If your gear placement is up to par and you trust your placements, the extra few feet you could whip is okay. The exception is on splitters with no traverses or roofs (unless the splitter is a roof or a traverse). Even a one-two foot roof can cause enough rope drag to cause cams to walk if they aren't extended and are not placed with care.

I was climbing the beautiful "splitter" Cake Walk at Tennessee Wall last season and didn't bother to extend my last piece before a tiny roof because I was confident I wouldn't fall on it. When I reached the anchors and asked for tension, the rope pulled the cam upwards (because of the roof just above it) and the cam walked and got stuck (thank you to whomever got it out. You are a hero). What this means is that you have to think about the direction of pull on the piece after you've placed the next one/two/three. While this isn't a safety concern for the most part, I think that losing gear because of ignorance is an ethical catastrophe.

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

OK, i was not going to jump in, but i JUST KANT HELP IT!
I was one of those 'extend every piece' guys. Had the luck to climb with a top guide on his day off at Smith. He schooled me hard and fast about not extending pieces unless needed.
Less gear to haul.
Less time spent placing gear.
Nuts don't 'walk'. They pop if not set, but they seldom (not never) walk.
Learn by watching others, and if you are lucky enough, climbing with experienced climbers. Yes, the rope wants to go straight. If this is really all that is holding you back, go to Double ropes. Voila.
Also, i have noticed that i have less drag, less 'walking potential, with coated (in my case a Beal) thin (9.4) lines. Smoother feed, less drag, etc.
Just say'n....

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

"When I reached the anchors and asked for tension, the rope pulled the cam upwards (because of the roof just above it) and the cam walked and got stuck (thank you to whomever got it out. You are a hero). What this means is that you have to think about the direction of pull on the piece after you've placed the next one/two/three. "

+1. Roofs need to have extension. I too have had a piece walk under a roof as i pulled the rope up. Not saying never extend, just saying it is not always necessary.

Joy likes trad · · Southern California · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 71
Muscrat wrote:Nuts.
QFT!
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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