Rope Retirement

i bought a 10.2 mammut rope less than a year ago and I'm scared it might be shot. I've always kept It in a ropebag at and It has been used pretty much once or twice a week for 8 or 9 months. Everything about it is great and healthy except for a little abrasion near the middle I noticed after climbing on it today... When I do the rope test the whole rope is fine except for this one inch section that seems to have flat core. It is not exposed at all. Is this worth retiring a rope?

It sounds fine, just annoying that it has a flat area. This happens. Use it until it gets super fuzzy or core shot. If you toprope a lot this will happen within a year.

Stich wrote:It sounds fine, just annoying that it has a flat area. This happens. Use it until it gets super fuzzy or core shot. If you toprope a lot this will happen within a year.

For realz?

The Google abides... Searching on climbing rope flat spot yields a wealth of info about retiring ropes.

Yes, for realz.
There's really no reason to retire a rope without a core shot. Sure, it's no longer a perfect, brand new rope, and maybe there's some lost elasticity, but it's not gonna just break on you because there's a flat spot. Besides, ropes are expensive...

Needless to retire, if the rope is still great.
But in any case, safety is a top priority.You must be certain the quality of the rope.

A great many climbers coil there ropes starting at the middle (or alternately, with both ends together). It facilitates a backpackable coil, and it's handy for setting up TRs and raps. If you do this, then there's a 180* bend in the rope at midpoint during storage. That MAY be what you're feeling, and I agree that it's no cause for concern.

Flat spots to watch out for are those that develop after a hard fall at the point where the rope passed over the top-most biner.

I think there's a few ways you could go, all of which are reasonable:

- Keep using it, plenty of people would, plenty of people have cut their ropes open and found nothing obviously wrong in the flat section. Does anyone know of a catastrophic rope failure in the field because of a flat spot? I don't, but maybe someone else does.

- Retire it, also plenty of people would, certainly lots of Google results suggest doing so

- Buy another rope, keep the old one around. See how you feel in a years time about your old rope

Personally I'd cut the section with the flat spot and find uses for the two halves. Why? Because I feel less good about a rope with flat spots, and I can afford to.

r m wrote:Does anyone know of a catastrophic rope failure in the field because of a flat spot?

No. In fact, I can't think of a catastrophic rope failure in general aside from incidents where the rope had been cut after being loaded over a very sharp ledge or biner edge. Maybe one could be the one that got Dan Osman, but the rope that failed in that case was left in the rain and sun for weeks or something before being used in a jump.

Anyone know if there are any recorded true rope failures that occurred during a free climbing or aid fall?

Gunkiemike wrote:A great many climbers coil there ropes starting at the middle (or alternately, with both ends together). It facilitates a backpackable coil, and it's handy for setting up TRs and raps. If you do this, then there's a 180* bend in the rope at midpoint during storage. That MAY be what you're feeling, and I agree that it's no cause for concern. Flat spots to watch out for are those that develop after a hard fall at the point where the rope passed over the top-most biner.

This. With the addition that the flat spot could also be attributed to constant raps. If you're consistently rapping from the mid-point of the rope, that could form the abrasion and flatness you're seeing, and isn't remotely as bad as the same type of damage occurring after only one fall which could indicate core damage.

Your rope is probably fine. Scenarios where I would retire my ropes:
-loss of elasticity to the point that it no longer absorbs lead falls safely
-super worn, fuzzy, thickened, and/or loose sheath
-core shot or soft and flattened area after a fall.
-exposure to extremely acidic or alkaline chemicals.

But then again, I'm just some dude on the internet. OP, do what you're comfortable with.

When all else fails, call the rope manufacturer and see what they have to say.

Todd Ra wrote:Yes, for realz. There's really no reason to retire a rope without a core shot. Sure, it's no longer a perfect, brand new rope, and maybe there's some lost elasticity, but it's not gonna just break on you because there's a flat spot. Besides, ropes are expensive...

What's your source of information on this? I'd classify manufacturer retirement guidelines as a "good reason".

At least 3 rope manufacturers recommend retiring ropes with flat spots (lack of uniformity in diameter, soft / mushy spots):

• trango.com/Images/Tabs/User…
• pmirope.com/sana/instructio…
• cdn.shptrn.com/media/mfg/73…

I had a flat spot in a 10mm rope and after friends continually bugged me about it I decided to cut it open carefully making sure I only cut the sheathing. when I got to the core there was nothing wrong with it at all.

Jon Zucco wrote:Scenarios where I would retire my ropes: -loss of elasticity to the point that it no longer absorbs lead falls safely...

How would the average climber with no specialized knowledge or equipment determine this at home?

Unless you're talking about the situation where you take a lead fall and think, wow, that kinda hurt? But that seems awfully subjective.

I've always felt, if you have any doubt, retire it.
A new rope is cheap life insurance.

Fuzzy rope shouldn't be a huge problem, but I'd retire it because of the flat section. Rather mistakenly cut a good rope than falling on a bad one. Besides, how much does a rope cost you?

If you do have to retire it, you will have a lifetime supply of dog leashes. Cut them to about 10 ft segments and practice your knots every time you take your dog for a walk.

I always go with the bend test and when you got an area that bends way to soft it is time to shorten / retire the rope.

Of course if you can ever see the core time to retire leading (possibly still use for double rope rappel if the core is untouched and can be covered.

It comes down to what is better life or 200$ for a new rope?

ViperScale wrote: It comes down to what is better life or 200$ for a new rope?

Is your life worth the cost of a thing?

Oh man if I had a dollar for every time i've heard that line.

For starters the guy is asking if his rope is done for, he is NOT asking for some random people's validation over the internet if he can get away with using a scary looking rope. Diagnosing gear takes experience sometimes, especially with soft goods.

I swear we should start designing some silly taco-esque image macros to paste around here because lines like those get tiresome.

I wouldn't climb on it, but you don't have to waste the rope. If the flat spot is anywhere near the middle, cut out the bad section (seal the new ends - either do at home or take to your local pro shop where they can do it with their hot knife) and you will have a couple shorter ropes that you can still use for top roping at shorter crags. I often wonder why I always lug a 60m rope to the 40-50 foot climbs I routinely top rope. Then you can pick up a new 60m for your longer lines.

Oh and make sure if you use a middle marker to make a new one on each of the new sections since obviously the original middle mark will not be in the middle of the rope if it is cut in half.

Nate KSD wrote: Is your life worth the cost of a thing? Oh man if I had a dollar for every time i've heard that line. For starters the guy is asking if his rope is done for, he is NOT asking for some random people's validation over the internet if he can get away with using a scary looking rope. Diagnosing gear takes experience sometimes, especially with soft goods. I swear we should start designing some silly taco-esque image macros to paste around here because lines like those get tiresome.

I have seen a guy who climbs 5.14d climbing on a rope that i can't believe he is still alive for using. Even being a sponsored climber noone ever taught him how to inspect his rope. So one day he came in to the gym with a new rope sponsor so he gave his old rope to a friend of mine. We couldn't believe how bad the ends were and cut them to make a short 50ft rope for us to use since he can no longer use that brand.

We educated him and his parent about what to look for on their rope from now on (heck he can get all the free ropes he wants) so he doesn't put himself in danger like he was.

Marc801 wrote: How would the average climber with no specialized knowledge or equipment determine this at home? Unless you're talking about the situation where you take a lead fall and think, wow, that kinda hurt? But that seems awfully subjective.

You get a sense for its decreasing elasticity as you weight it, fall on it, etc. on a regular basis. And you're right, without the knowledge or gear to rig a precise test, it's completely subjective.

ViperScale wrote: I have seen a guy who climbs 5.14d ...(snip)... We educated him and his parent about what to look for on their rope from now on (heck he can get all the free ropes he wants) so he doesn't put himself in danger like he was.

And his parent, huh? Somehow I get the suspicion that your 14d climber hasn't been climbing long enough to have much experience when it comes to evaluating the useable lifetime of a climbing rope.

Nathanael Nelms wrote:When I do the rope test the whole rope is fine except for this one inch section that seems to have flat core. It is not exposed at all. Is this worth retiring a rope?

Without knowing what you mean by "a flat core" no-one here can possibly know whether you're being paranoid and your rope has normal wear or if there was a defect in your rope and it is absolutely unsafe for climbing.

Photos here might be definitive, but really, take it and show it to someone who knows.

GO