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MtnProject bought by REI

Shepido · · CO · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 50

It's a bit niave to believe you own any content on the web that you post to any site (unless you own the site personally) despite whatever the terms and conditions say the day you sign up. Usually buried in there is that they can change the terms in the future and maybe not even tell you. Basically that last clause just got realized. Either stay or go. REI may or may not own your route descriptions and posts. Oh well.

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
doligo wrote:I'm disappointed to say the least... I hate everything REI consumerism stand for.
Plus they sell some damn ugly clothes! Come on! Maybe you could find something better than stuff that looks like Ugly American travel wear. About the only stylish stuff they have are some very expensive jackets. And the climbing gear selection just gets worse and worse. I use to be able to buy long lengths of Bluewater 11 static rope off the spool for cleaning projects and they don't even offer that anymore. The climbing shoe selection is pitiful.
Nick Sweeney · · Spokane, WA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 969

I like REI but most of my climbing purchases come from elsewhere. They simply don't have enough selection.

JJ Schlick · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined May 2006 · Points: 11,803

After looking everything over, I say congrats Nick and Andy. Hopefully this will secure the sites, and databases for a long time to come. Personally I think the real outdoor corporations need to start stepping up to help support the community that supports them.

Times are changing, and it feels for the better to me. People have free access to tons of knowledge. If REI can help make MP a better site, then let them provide a way to do it. Nobody's complaining about getting free modern hardware to upgrade old routes, and that should just be the start. "Sponsorships" should be completely rethought to include those who spend their free time establishing new routes, and those repairing old ones. Not just the hottest climber, or the usual crusher.

If you have contributed info to MP over the years, there is a little bit of guide book author rattling around in you somewhere. Personally, I contribute to MP because it helps spread people out at different crags, and I don't mind one bit sharing my hard earned knowledge for the next generation to take in. While I do feel like MP is a community, to me, it is first and foremost a tool.

Personally I consider everything I post public domain. I just don't give shit. I mean in today's day and age, does it even matter? If you feel differently, I would strongly urge you to have an admin "orphan" your contributions, instead of deleting them. Please! This way your name is taken off, but the info remains for the next generation to put to use. You've already added the info out of the kindness of heart. Let it stay.

Adventures start in all sorts of ways. MP is the best online resource available to the classics, and should only get better. I hardly see REI as part of the Axis Of Evil. My 2 cents.

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
JJ Schlick wrote: I hardly see REI as part of the Axis Of Evil. My 2 cents.
You obviously haven't googled REI illuminati.
chris21 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 125
JJ Schlick wrote:If you have contributed info to MP over the years, there is a little bit of guide book author rattling around in you somewhere. Personally, I contribute to MP because it helps spread people out at different crags, and I don't mind one bit sharing my hard earned knowledge for the next generation to take in. While I do feel like MP is a community, to me, it is first and foremost a tool. Personally I consider everything I post public domain. I just don't give shit. I mean in today's day and age, does it even matter?
I think the issue, that some have, is not Nick and Andy making money off of users volunteered contributions, because they provided and funded and organized a database for climbers to use and benefit from and contribute to, but that now those volunteered contributions are the property of REI a business who's interest in the website is simply that they think they can make a profit. I'm all for businesses making a profit, but I wouldn't want to give REI my photos and routes and any other information that they can use for advertising or customer research for free.
JJ Schlick · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined May 2006 · Points: 11,803

I'm sure it will all come out in the day or so.

Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,025

I had a REI member number below 1000. Over the years since REI started in Seattle, I have seen primarily company management changes which took REI away from it's start up goals of providing quality domestic and foreign mountaineering/outdoor gear to US climbers. I can remember going into REI and buying the highest quality REI branded exceptionally well designed down parka; that parka lasted over 25 years...or buying an Egyptian Cotton treated shell which was almost indestructible and lasted over 30 years. To get the same product today I'd end up at Mountain Gear, Arcteryx or Berghaus, etc...you get the idea. It would not come from REI.

Now, when I visit REI, I see REI as an overpriced software Mc'd-boutique which seldom caters to my needs. That said, my purchases are specific and I have some experience to know exactly what I need. For someone starting off outdoor activities that is often not the case.

Nevertheless, REI tries to retain a flagship image for promoting outdoor use as it broadened it's customer base. What concerns me about this MP sale is what I see of REI's business model may get imposed upon Mountain Project and we the users will begin to see information throttled, used for REI's commercial interests, become hard to find or simply lost as REI seeks to direct the MP in a way which profits REI.

I use Mountain Project as a data base and clearing house for climbing locations, route and condition information. I use the forums for discussions about climbing issues, selling stuff and asking opinions and sharing information with climbers from different backgrounds and many different areas.

Sure the code may be a little dated and wonky and the mobile database could be better....but flawed and haphazard as MP might be with misinformation, for me, it's foremost a resource much like Wikipedia in that information from now out of print guidebooks can sometimes be found within the content of Mountain Project. Traveling away from my area, I'll load my smart phone and use the mobile data base for a guidebook I don't have cause it's out of print.

Before the sale, I considered MP a living growing shared document which I'd like to hope is heuristic and self correcting. Perhaps that is a bit naïve.

I would have liked to see the MP information database broadened to include things like archived magazine articles of lost routes and areas. I would have liked to see MP's credibility enhanced to the point first ascentionists would contribute to pages which included their first ascents. I would have liked to see the data base expanded and "out of print guidebooks" brought online within the content of MP.

Perhaps this purchase is just good publicity for REI...in perspective of their total operating budget this could be a public relations write off. But now I can't help but think how REI management pushed the co-op to evolve in a way which moved away from their core customer base to an enterprise which served many but just not as well.

Incidentally, I am all for Nick and Andy making a living off MP.

Before I add more content I am going to have to think about this and see how things evolve.

Mark Rolofson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,000

This is unfortunate. Why? Because REI is a large corporation with its own corporate interests in mind. Media works best when it is trully independent & there is no potential conflict of interests. Perhaps the site won't change much at all, but it gives REI the chance to advertise now for free & charge other outfitters as much as REI chooses. It gives them an unfair competitive advantage. When Big Business gets bigger & starts swallowing up smaller businesses that is called forming a monopoly. It is why Teddy Roosevelt created the anti-trust laws. In fact before the media consolidation of the Clinton Era this merger may have possibly been illegal. I can't say for sure.

Austin Baird · · SLC, Utah · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 95

I'll give 10 to 1 odds to anyone who cares to make a bet with me that REI won't throttle, change, or otherwise corrupt the information that MP has been putting out. Let's put a time limit on it, so I can get my money in a reasonable fashion. Say - two years? If REI has deleted or otherwise throttled the route descriptions that you're all so paranoid about being bastardized, I'll pay up. If not, I accept cash, check, or pizza.

Any of you conspiracy theorists want to put your money where your mouths are?

chris21 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 125
Austin Baird wrote:I'll give 10 to 1 odds to anyone who cares to make a bet with me that REI won't throttle, change, or otherwise corrupt the information that MP has been putting out. Let's put a time limit on it, so I can get my money in a reasonable fashion. Say - two years? If REI has deleted or otherwise throttled the route descriptions that you're all so paranoid about being bastardized, I'll pay up. If not, I accept cash, check, or pizza. Any of you conspiracy theorists want to put your money where your mouths are?
I don't consider myself a conspirasy theorist, but will you extend those odds to using users photos in advertisements without personally asking or compensating the user and/or putting a price tag on the app again?
Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

did you guys not read your user agreement?

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

I could see them selling an app for phones using the information provided by the site. I really like the ones I have used but they are still kinda buggy and crash alot, but I see good things from having a phone app that can track where you are standing compared to the start of the route even when you can't get a cell signal.

That is alot of where it looks like they are going, i don't see the website itself ever changing though because they need people to provide routes / gps points for them.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

We're all gonna die!!!

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Your already dead your consciousness just realize it yet.

tim naylor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2004 · Points: 370

no wonder my post involving ... haven't been uploaded. expired slings for full price? giving back to community. nope

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
tim naylor wrote:no wonder my post involving ... haven't been uploaded. expired slings for full price? giving back to community. nope
What?
By any chance, was that yesterday (3/14) mid-afternoon MDT when the site was having database problems?
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Eric Whitbeck wrote:One way to look at it is whether or not Mountain Project would have grown if it began as an REI based database. I don't think so. However, we all just need to get used to the new economy and new technology. I doubt I would have been drawn to it if it was an REI based web site, but it was my own naivety that led me to imagine it would never change. Congrats to the founders for a successful run and for the rest of us, it was a harmless lesson in the new way of the world. For the record, this will be my last post. Thanks to everyone for the great photos and routes. I think Blitzo made my day more than once.
How has MP changed in the 10 months since the acquisition?
tim naylor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2004 · Points: 370

no last week i think?

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
tim naylor wrote:no last week i think?
Why don't you try posting it again?
You did follow guideline #1 in your post, yes?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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