Camelot birthday present

Thinking maybe it's time to pull the trigger on a full trad rack. My lead climbers birthday is coming up, so I was thinking to surprise her with a full rack.

We already have some mixed cams and two sets of nuts, and a few alpine slings. But I was looking at the BD C4 set; Back Country C4 set and then adding an X4 .1 and .2.

I would appreciate experienced trad climbers opinions.

I would maybe forgo the .1 and .2 and double up in a couple hand sized pieces! Also I would go .3, .4 and maybe even .5 in x4 instead of c4, the narrower head starts to shine in the smaller sizes!

Also, 5 and 6 are sort of "specialty" sizes depending on where you climb, wouldn't hurt to use that money to double up on more sizes unless you have some wide climbs you're stoked on! Most people wait on buying specialty gear until they find a climb they need it for.

Good advice in the previous post.

Unless you are climbing 5.10 and harder trad lines with face climbing cruxes small cams don't seem to be all that important. The can be really useful here at red rock(ssssssss) but I hardly ever used the really small stuff on granite trad climbs until I started getting into "harder" grades.

(The crux pitch on West Country on Stately Pleasure dome, tuolumne meadows is an exception.)

Doubles from .5 - 2 should be standard for any "full" rack. Two threes are good to have on many climbs, extra weight on some.

.3 and .4 are also really useful sizes imo, and great because they are so light, I normally always carry two of ea unless I know I won't need em.

If you don't have 8-10 single length runners in some combination of alpine draws and over the shoulder slings, you should get some more.

My 2c!

I agree that 5 and 6 are probably unnecessary unless you are seeking the wide. For my area, .3 to 3 and alpine draws is a good starting point.

I started with double .5 to 2 and a single 3. I slowly added another 3 and 4, 0.4, 0.3, 0.2 as i needed them. Anything larger than a 4 is going to be extremely rare to use. I can only say one route I ever climbed that really needed it (so i free soloed the 2nd half of the easy route without it) and hand full of others that could have been placed but was not needed.

Lots of slings are always nice, i don't know how many times i left some in the car and later wish I had them.

For the sake of argument I am going to stretch this^^^^ and say:

A C4#4 is probably unnecessary in a lot of applications. And a C4#3 can see limited use.

If buying piece-meal you can hold on #3 and above, if buying in a set you can hold on #4 and above. If you don't need #'s 4-6 you can save $300+ off the bat.

But these concerns are monetary vs. regional. If you have the dough, and your area eats wide cams, get em!

X4's vs. Mastercams vs. Aliens in the small cams is a personal preference. I'm barely interested in my C4#.5 and would not be interested in smaller for that model. But some quick research, if you were to buy small, looks like you'd want:

X4: Yellow - Purple
Mastercam: Blue - Red
Alien: Green - Red
Helium: Blue - Yellow

Simon W wrote: Doubles from .5 - 2 should be standard for any "full" rack.

Must depend on where you typically climb. I very rarely carry doubles (usually only when I know I'm doing a climb that requires it)...

Dallas.....so much depends on what sort of climbs you and your partner favor. If you gravitate to finger cracks then the 0.2 - 0.4 sizes should predominate on your rack, but if wider cracks (then fingers) are your fancy then 0.5 - 2.0 would be a better choice. 0.1 - 0.2 would be handy to have, but not sizes that would be used extensively unless you choose climbs with thinner cracks.

It all depends on where you climb and what routes you do

Out here there are very popular moderate multis where double #3,4 and even a 5 is suggested

And in squamish you definately want a few smaller cams as finger cracks are all over the place

Ask folks who climb where you do ... Not random intrawebbahs

;)

I really like the DMM offset nuts. If you are getting a full set of standard nuts, it would be nice to augment with the larger 1/2 set of offsets for the second set. I always seem to place them at least a few times an outing.

Can I be your lead climbing friend too?

polloloco wrote:I really like the DMM offset nuts. If you are getting a full set of standard nuts, it would be nice to augment with the larger 1/2 set of offsets for the second set. I always seem to place them at least a few times an outing.

+1

they rock!

Thank you for all the good responses.

Sounds like what I get depends on where we are climbing. The problem is we are retired and travel extensively. As a result the answer to where we climb is everywhere. This constant change means we have to be prepared for anything.

We are not real strong climbers, so tend to gravitate to the 5.5-5.7 routes.

So far I am hearing the the #5 and #6 are very pretty but not very useful, they would also be a lot of weight to carry around. Since we are not 5.10+ finger crack climbers the really small stuff would not be very useful.

I think you'all have saved me about $400.

LCC-Climber wrote:Can I be your lead climbing friend too?

LOL, In my case I am married to my lead climber.

In squamish theres tons of fingercracks in the 5.6-9 range

Heres one of the most popular moderate multis ... Most beginners would want a few finger sized cams down to green alien for the crux pitch

Calculus 5.8 6p, squamish chief

;)

Dallas R wrote: LOL, In my case I am married to my lead climber.

Have you considered polygamy?

I'm a relatively new trad leader 5.7/8 range and there have been some times where I've really been thankful for my X4 .3 & .4. For example, I was climbing this 5.6 ish slab and the only protection was a small crack. Glad I had a .3 so I didn't have to run it out.

Also, put me in line to be your trad partner. I would even dress the part if you want. ;)

For that grade range, I would double up on .5 to 3 c4s. If you get stuck using any of your bigger cams in the belay, you'll be hurting on the lead. And DMM offsets are the cats meow! Singles in the smaller sizes. Any thoughts on c3s? Save a couple bucks and they are rated a bit stronger than x4s.

Dallas R wrote:Thank you for all the good responses. Sounds like what I get depends on where we are climbing. The problem is we are retired and travel extensively. As a result the answer to where we climb is everywhere. This constant change means we have to be prepared for anything. We are not real strong climbers, so tend to gravitate to the 5.5-5.7 routes. So far I am hearing the the #5 and #6 are very pretty but not very useful, they would also be a lot of weight to carry around. Since we are not 5.10+ finger crack climbers the really small stuff would not be very useful. I think you'all have saved me about $400. LOL, In my case I am married to my lead climber.

In your case I'd probably buy a double set of C4's from .5 to #4 plus .3, .4, #5, and full set (or two) of Totem Basics. Consider triples .5 to #2 and two sets of nuts. If I were retired traveling to climb I'd want to carry enough gear to climb anything short of a long aid route.

You still need small gear, just because you're not climbing finger cracks doesn't mean you don't need small cams.

Smaller cams are super useful. Even on routes following wide cracks you can often find opportunities to place them deep inside the crack, behind flakes on the face, in horizontal fractures, etc.

I wouldn't recommend buying C4s smaller than .5 -- the width of their head is relatively greater than Mastercams, Aliens, or X4s (all of which work well, though people seem to have strong opinions as to which they prefer). And that extra width makes small C4s less useful in shallow placements.

I would buy C4s .5-3 and some small cams covering from about 20mm down to 10mm or so. Pay attention to which sizes she uses the most*. Buy doubles of those.

And lots of alpine draws.

*Conveniently, many climbers will point out what gear would be most useful while on lead. Often accompanied by profanity.

bearbreeder wrote:In squamish Most beginners would want a few finger sized cams down to green alien for the crux pitch ;)

BearBreeder, I have read many of your posts, you offer sound, constant advice, I am pretty focused on BD and Metolius products. To look at Fixe Aliens I will need to do more time consuming research. Looking hard at getting to Squamish in August.

mountainhick wrote: Have you considered polygamy?

I am thinking more Polyandry, that way more fellows can split the cost and maybe ropegun. But then you will have to deal with H & H.

polloloco wrote:Glad I had a .3 …Also, put me in line to be your trad partner. I would even dress the part if you want. ;)

We have one .3 – x4. “Dress the Part” got me ROFL. We could do a whole climbers in drag thing, would probably make millions. Or better yet, Dirtbaggers in Drag. I gotta call my agent to see if this will work.

Jeremy Riesberg wrote:I would double up on .5 to 3 c4s. …Any thoughts on c3s?

I think this is where I am headed. See my current rack below. I don’t know C3’s. Would have to do more time consuming research.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: buy a double set of C4's from .5 to #4 plus .3, .4, #5, and full set (or two) of Totem Basics. Consider triples .5 to #2 and two sets of nuts.

Ray, I am not sure I am that strong. 12 C4’s, plus 3, plus 7 Totem Basics, plus 4 more and 2 sets of nuts. 26 cams and two sets of nuts plus alpine draws. I will grant that this will cover most any condition.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: You still need small gear

True, thank you.

e-m-p wrote:Smaller cams are super useful… I wouldn't recommend buying C4s smaller than .5 … I would buy C4s .5-3 and some small cams … Pay attention to which sizes she uses the most*. … And lots of alpine draws

Several posts have indicated that smaller cams are needed. So I am looking at increasing with either X4 or Mastercams. Her go-to cam is the BD C4 .75 and her X4 .3.

Slings, currently we have about 7 alpine slings. Unfortunately they are a motley collection. I am not too worried about getting this cleaned up. Sling improvement will evolve after hardware purchases are made and used. Then we will have a better understanding of what is needed.

Ok, all of the specifics has caused be to actually inventory what we have.

Current rack

1 - .3 BDX4
2 - .75 BDC4
1 - .4 BDC4
1 - 1 BDC4
1 - 2 BDC4
The Metolius Orange, the big Friend, and the old BD were part of an ebay purchase and the only pieces I thought viable.

So my new shopping list will look like this:
1 - .2 BDX4
1 - .4 BDX4
1 - .5 BDX4
1 - #3 BDC4
1 - #4 BDC4

You may have noticed that I lean toward BD products. I am going to attempt to translate this list into Metolius products, I like the fact Metolius are labeled as made in the USA.

I am thinking this will round things out for us in the near future. Like everyone else, experience is the best teacher, but this should be a good start.

Thanks for all of your input.

Dallas R wrote: Ray, I am not sure I am that strong.

Do more pullups...or don't carry your entire brand new triple rack on every climb.