I did my first multipitch with the WRONG shoes...need suggestions.

Mathias wrote: MOG? To the OP: As far as the moccs go, I'm north of 200lbs and whilst I don't climb hard, some of the hardest climbing ive done has been in them. Super comfortable, but careful heel hooking, I've had my shoe pop off more than once on bouldering problems. I don't think they make a women's version. They're also a simple design and whilst not the cheapest shoes, not the most expensive by a long way. I think $115 is the MSRP. If you try the TC Pro or Mythos and they don't fit but you like the stiffness, look at the 5.10 Anasazi Guides. If you're looking for an all day shoe, make sure it's comfortable. 1/2 a size smaller can give you better performance but kill your feet if worn all day. 1/2 larger and you may not have such precision, but you'll be happy at the end of a long climb. I wish I'd gone up half a size in the Guides. I climbed a day with one guy who had moccs that were so old and worn, I'd have retired them. Soles were original but worn way down. Just beat to hell. But he was really good in them! It made me think about how the shoes don't make the Climber. Others I climb with who are far better than me would prefer a comfy shoe to the slightly better performance of a tighter fit.

Mathias,

A MOG [Man Of Girth] is an identifying term of (usually) endearment bestowed upon us climbers who squeeze their way into euro-sized climbing apparel, have the propensity to carry big packs (more often than not, filled with extra treats and snacks) over long distances, and almost always end up rappelling first (Obviously reinforced with the 'Fat-Dog Back-Up").

Edit to Add: So I don't completely de-rail this tread. I wear upsized Muiras on most moderate multi-pitch routes, and Gandas on easy climbs. The interpretation of moderate and easy is completely up to you.

Tony B wrote: If you ever got into "film" would that be your screen name?

Depends... what type of film Tony!?? ;)

J Antin wrote: Mathias, A MOG [Man Of Girth] is an identifying term of (usually) endearment bestowed upon us climbers who squeeze their way into euro-sized climbing apparel, have the propensity to carry big packs (more often than not, filled with extra treats and snacks) over long distances, and almost always end up rappelling first (Obviously reinforced with the 'Fat-Dog Back-Up"). Edit to Add: So I don't completely de-rail this tread. I wear upsized Muiras on most moderate multi-pitch routes, and Gandas on easy climbs. The interpretation of moderate and easy is completely up to you.

And MOG's always carry the fully loaded haulbag, to the start of the climb and back down, without complaint.

And TC Pro's really do everything pretty damn well, while keeping your toes happy.

Ian Cavanaugh wrote:If you like that shoe, take it off after every pitch. I regularly climb long route 500'-1500' with the same shoe I wear for single pitch. I have just become accustom to removing after every pitch like i do on the ground. if its easy terrain then we simul climb. flat shoes like the mocc and the mythos are the least performance shoe ever designed. if you have to edge or get on difficult terrain they will do you no good at all. find a shoe that is comfortable but performs well, something you can wear for say 2-3 pitches most without removing. that will be your shoe.

I agree with Ian and a few others above, if you climb well in the Miuras, then just use them for multi-pitch but remember to slip heel off at every belay. It’s true that a lot of great climbers can climb really hard with Mocs or Cros or whatever soft shoes you throw at them. But consider this: everyone would agree that world class climbers all have really strong grip strength, but no one thinks for a second that they also developed really strong feet and toes over the years. I bet Sharma can probably edge better with bare feet than I do in my tightest edging shoes. Even Tony B, who according to his profile has been climbing for 30 years, probably doesn’t realize that his feet are much more conditioned to climbing than the average person. So getting up a 5.10 slab in Mythos is easy for him (consider also that he climbs 5.11d).

So I don’t think you need a pair of “comfy” shoes just for multi-pitch unless you only climb stuff way below your limit in which case shoes don’t really matter. But if you need to climb anything near your limit, you’d be happy to have your performance shoes with you. My partner has a pair of Evolv “comfy” shoes and a pair of Miruas. I just took him on a 7-pitch climb on which the crux pitch is near his limit. He was very happy that he was using his Miuras.

Short Beta wrote: Do they make the Mocs for women?

I sure do believe so. I see women in them all the time at my gyms.

fiveten.com/products/footwe…

They don't make girl versions of most shoes but it doesn't matter, the only difference is the shape so all you need is something that fits. Also, people overestimate the need for shoes to be tight for performance. It helps, but for most climbers it doesn't outweigh the discomfort.

Also, the ankle keeper straps so you can slip off shoes at the belay is a great idea!

aikibujin wrote: I agree with Ian and a few others above, if you climb well in the Miuras, then just use them for multi-pitch but remember to slip heel off at every belay. It’s true that a lot of great climbers can climb really hard with Mocs or Cros or whatever soft shoes you throw at them. But consider this: everyone would agree that world class climbers all have really strong grip strength, but no one thinks for a second that they also developed really strong feet and toes over the years. I bet Sharma can probably edge better with bare feet than I do in my tightest edging shoes. Even Tony B, who according to his profile has been climbing for 30 years, probably doesn’t realize that his feet are much more conditioned to climbing than the average person. So getting up a 5.10 slab in Mythos is easy for him (consider also that he climbs 5.11d). So I don’t think you need a pair of “comfy” shoes just for multi-pitch unless you only climb stuff way below your limit in which case shoes don’t really matter. But if you need to climb anything near your limit, you’d be happy to have your performance shoes with you. My partner has a pair of Evolv “comfy” shoes and a pair of Miruas. I just took him on a 7-pitch climb on which the crux pitch is near his limit. He was very happy that he was using his Miuras.

I have plenty of partners who arent sharma or huber ... And they climb trad just fine out here at their limit in mocs and mythos

Nor are they follks with decades of foot conditioning

Now folks can use whatever they want but on moderate GRANITE multi which is common in squamish having tight shoes is a quick way for painful feet ...

Knucked toes in continous hand jams or frictions smears are an acquired torture taste

When folks use their tight sport climbing or bouldering shoes out here for long moderate multi ... They then run off and go buy shoes that are more suitable

This can be a size up of their favorite shoes, or shoes that are meant for such climbing styles

It does NOT mean the shoe has to be soft ... The tc pros and scarpa technox are meant to be crack shoes and they are quite stiff

Most climbers out here either have a comfortable or stretched out resole pair for easy climbing and another set for the hard stuff

The other note is that if yr doing 10-20 pitches of moderate granite crack and slab a day, several days a week, for a full season .... Those shoes wont last too long

No other type of outdoor climbing wears down shoes as jamming and torquing them in cracks ... And smearing them with all yr weight on slab

Moderate trad granite climbing is hard on the feet ... And doubly so when you need to place the gear

In fact one could say the the secret is to find ways to rest yr feet mid climb

Heres a moderate multi we ran up yesterday ... Yr better off with comfortable shoes on this sucker than tighty aggressive ones

Deidre 5.7/8 5p squamish chief

Of course BITD everyone ran up it in mountain boots, plimsoles and at best crap early climbing shoes ...

;)

aikibujin wrote:So I don’t think you need a pair of “comfy” shoes just for multi-pitch unless you only climb stuff way below your limit in which case shoes don’t really matter. But if you need to climb anything near your limit, you’d be happy to have your performance shoes with you.

Dunno, man... I jumped grades and climb at my limit in my comfy $70 5.10 Rogues...

BITD, folks like Bachar, Croft, Cosgrove didn't have "performance" shoes and were sending 5.12 (and soloing 5.13, right?).

My recent new-to-multipitch partners have all had pretty bad foot pain and wished they had comfy shoes on...

I love my Anasazi, worn them all day on 1500ft climbs and my feet felt great. Once in a while i put on, normally just one foot, aggressive shoes for bouldering certain routes.

Had a friend spend the week with me in yosmite and all he had was some sharmans and by the time he got up snake dike, royal arches, and a few other long routes he was ready to climb barefoot.

Kent Richards wrote:BITD, folks like Bachar, Croft, Cosgrove didn't have "performance" shoes and were sending 5.12 (and soloing 5.13, right?). My recent new-to-multipitch partners have all had pretty bad foot pain and wished they had comfy shoes on...

Again, isn't this the same argument made upthread of Sharma/Huber/your choice of talented climbers climbing 5.hard in Mocs/Crocs/wooden planks duct taped to their feet? If you put yourself in the same league as Bachar/Croft/Cosgrove, then I'm sure you can warm up on my proj in a pair of fuzzy bunny slippers. But for the rest of us mortals, shoes do make a difference. My arms are wet noodles, my technique is crap, and my footwork is a joke. So I need every advantage I can get, including "performance" shoes, in order to drag my sorry ass up something at my limit. BTW your 5.10 Rogues are not too far off from my "performance" shoes, the 5.10 Anasazi.

My new-to-multipitch partner kept sliding off massive jugs in his comfy shoes, that's why he went and bought the Miuras and is much happier climbing in them, single or multi-pitch. His footwork is more precise with the Miuras, he's not constantly sliding off footholds, he trust his feet more, and he can climb harder routes when he's wearing them. Would he climb better in "comfy shoes" if his footwork is better? Of course. We all can do better to improve our footwork. But the Miuras are actually helping him learn better footwork, while his floppy comfy Evolvs were certainly not.

So...
I just had a long internet crap throwing contect with a smart phone and my fingers ache. Can anyone suggest a more ergonomic solution? An old desktop with an Ergo keyboard seems obvious, but that old technology is unpopular and hard to lug around... can't take it with me to work, etc.
Any opinions on how best to make sure everyone else on the internet that is wrong is exposed?

Folks this is granite FRICTION slab ...

Tight stiff downturned shoes arent going to help u on this sucka

Mighty mouse 10d 3p, squamish chief

For beginners tight stiff downturned shoes are actually COUNTER PRODUCTIVE for learning proper crack and slab technique

Because their feet hurt in footjams in such shoes, beginners will often try to keep their feet outside the crack often laybacking it

Heres one of the best beginner cracks around here ... 30m of pute jamming ... Folks with aggressive stiff downturned shoes usually cant bear the pain of the foot jams and try to layback or keep the feet outside the crack ... They arent learning how to foot jam

Kalahanie 5.7, shannon falls, squamish

For slabs beginners will try to step edge on the smallest crystals on moderates in such shoes rather than learning how to properly smear

Smearing and foot jamming are absolutely essential skills and need to be practiced over and over again ... Cant do that if yr feet keep hurting

;)

Tony B wrote:So... I just had a long internet crap throwing contect with a smart phone and my fingers ache. Can anyone suggest a more ergonomic solution? An old desktop with an Ergo keyboard seems obvious, but that old technology is unpopular and hard to lug around... can't take it with me to work, etc. Any opinions on how best to make sure everyone else on the internet that is wrong is exposed?

I have plenty of partners who arent sharma or huber ... And they post on MP just fine out here at their limit with their smart phone

Nor are they follks with decades of finger conditioning

Now folks can use whatever they want but on long draw out crap throwing contest which is common on MP using smart phones is a quick way for painful fingers...

Knucked fingers in continous clenched fist or wall punching are an acquired torture taste

When folks use their smart phones out here for crap throwing... They then run off and go buy desktops that are more suitable

This can be a size up of their favorite smart phone, or touchpads that are meant for such throwing styles

It does NOT mean the desktop has to be huge... The touchpads and laptops are meant to be mobile MP devices and they are quite small

Most climbers out here either have a iPhone or iPad for easy crap throwing and another set for the hard stuff

The other note is that if yr throwing 10-20 loads of crap a day, several days a week, for a full season .... Those phones wont last too long

No other type of crap throwing wears down phones as pounding and yelling angrily at the screen... And smashing them with all yr weight on the ground

Moderate crap throwing is hard on the fingers... And doubly so when you need to start the crap throwing

In fact one could say the the secret is to find ways to rest yr fingers mid throw

Heres a moderate load of crap I threw yesterday ... Yr better off with a laptop on this sucker than small tiny smart phones



;)

Wow thanks for all the info ..it's almost too much. lol.
I'd keep using my Muiras however the toes both have quarter sized holes.
(While I was climbing the guy leading the route said I looked like an asshole with my big toes poking out of my shoes)

Good suggestions on comfier moccasin type shoes... I like the looks of the La Sportiva Mythos. Big fan of the brand so far.

When I suck a little less at multipitch/crack climbing, I'll probably grab another pair of Muiras too.
And hopefully not look like an asshole .

aikibujin wrote: I have plenty of partners who arent sharma or huber ... And they post on MP just fine out here at their limit with their smart phone Nor are they follks with decades of finger conditioning Now folks can use whatever they want but on long draw out crap throwing contest which is common on MP using smart phones is a quick way for painful fingers... Knucked fingers in continous clenched fist or wall punching are an acquired torture taste When folks use their smart phones out here for crap throwing... They then run off and go buy desktops that are more suitable This can be a size up of their favorite smart phone, or touchpads that are meant for such throwing styles It does NOT mean the desktop has to be huge... The touchpads and laptops are meant to be mobile MP devices and they are quite small Most climbers out here either have a iPhone or iPad for easy crap throwing and another set for the hard stuff The other note is that if yr throwing 10-20 loads of crap a day, several days a week, for a full season .... Those phones wont last too long No other type of crap throwing wears down phones as pounding and yelling angrily at the screen... And smashing them with all yr weight on the ground Moderate crap throwing is hard on the fingers... And doubly so when you need to start the crap throwing In fact one could say the the secret is to find ways to rest yr fingers mid throw Heres a moderate load of crap I threw yesterday ... Yr better off with a laptop on this sucker than small tiny smart phones ;)

Dont get bitter little on simply because ur giving bad advice

I see folks out here every season wearing their tight downturned aggressive shoes on moderate low angle jamming cracks

When i ask em why they dont get their feet in the crack ... They say "it hurts too much!!!"

Cant learn basic crack technique of yr feet are in pain

Most serious climbers also have a set of more comfortable shoes ... Whether its a stretched out older resoled pair, a size up or a shoe more suited for the climbing style

Maybe u should get serious !!!

;)

Short beta,
For reference, my muira lace-ups and mythos are equally tight, though not equally comfortable, at size 37.5 for the muiras and 35.5 for the mythos. The mythos stretched much more and I factored that in.
Obviously try 'em on. A wide foot, which I don't have, might make the size spread smaller.
Good luck!