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SCC Community Forum

saxfiend · · Decatur, GA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,221

Paul, I think there's some good stuff in this proposal, especially this:

Paul Barnes wrote:Before any route development is permitted on SCC land, an assessment shall be made to determine the climbing history of the cliff. This is important so previously established routes will not be erased by inadvertently being retro bolted. New development shall consider the long standing ethic of the crag.
If this process had been followed before Yellow Bluff was opened, we wouldn't be arguing about it now.

At the same time, I'll reiterate the points I've made before about how the original route developers/first ascentionists need to step up to the plate and provide documentation of the history of the crag. This is another area where the ball got dropped at Yellow Bluff. The SCC can do the due diligence, but the guys who established the original routes have to be proactive too.

The parts of this proposal that make me uneasy are aspects that trend toward micromanagement of SCC-owned crags. Aside from the fact that the SCC doesn't have the staff to do such micromanagement, we also need to recall the CCC debacle that followed the opening of Laurel Knob (route committee, etc.).

JL
Jaime M · · Chattanooga, TN · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 85
Jeff Mekolites wrote:• website will need a significant amount of updating/revamping to address these initiatives…and to draw traffic to the website…could be cross posted to heavy traffic sites like mountainproject.com, access fund, etc…these could also begin to build membership…
I've thought this myself. All the information is there, but it lacks polish. Like the search bar doesn't search the whole site--just articles, and the URLs could be cleaned up with aliases (i.e. "seclimber.org/news" rather than "seclimber.org/modules.php?name=News"). It could use a visual makeover. It could also benefit greatly from being made mobile-friendly.

I've got some web development experience (Drupal, Wordpress, and other CMSs). I'd be willing to donate some time toward a website revamp if the SCC is interested.
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
Jaime M wrote: I've thought this myself. All the information is there, but it lacks polish. Like the search bar doesn't search the whole site--just articles, and the URLs could be cleaned up with aliases (i.e. "seclimber.org/news" rather than "seclimber.org/modules.php?name=News"). It could use a visual makeover. It could also benefit greatly from being made mobile-friendly. I've got some web development experience (Drupal, Wordpress, and other CMSs). I'd be willing to donate some time toward a website revamp if the SCC is interested.
This is the kind of help the SCC needs. If you can swing a hammer, do that. If you can help with the website, do that.

John....
I think the premise of the CCC moratorium/rules-of-engagement makes more sense in the TAG.
It's almost like the tactics got flipped....
Less bolts where one could easily argue more could be warranted....and we all know I love (hairball) slab more than most people.
And more bolts where there's often natural pro.

As you will recall, I was a significant antagonist to that proposal, in WNC, at the time....along with Shannon and Wayne.
Subsequently, with the opening, more traffic, and with the time-passing of a few years, it seems all parties have buried those hatchets and the place stands as one of the finest bastions of climbing in the entire world....
I said it.

The CCC debacle....
The distress of that time, when Sean and Co. secured purchase and negotiated the long trail in, amidst Pirating and Conspiracy Theories, was akin to the distress we are all feeling now.
Both parties were righteous then and remain, dutifully, devoted to "the cause" today....at LK and beyond.
Let's learn from that and expedite this process.

What has been accomplished in Southeastern climbing in the last 30 years is something significant.
Let's support that history and efforts to protect it.
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

I actually brought up at the meeting that I think Southeastern climbers have been done somewhat of a disservice by having two camps (the SCC and the CCC) when it comes to ethics. I, personally, believe that somewhere between the staunch traditional ethic that the CCC strives to uphold and the...um...well...the lack thereof (for lack of a better way of saying it) in the SCC's territory...lies a sweet spot that probably 9 out of 10 climbers east of the Mississippi and South of the Mason-Dixon line could accept.

I'm not saying merge the two or anything of the sort...just an observation.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

I found this interesting...as well as relevant to some recent discussions we've had down here in God's Country bout ehtics and such...see the pics and comments.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/geezer-wall/106518988

Joey Wolfe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,020
Paul Barnes wrote: I, personally, believe that somewhere between the staunch traditional ethic that the CCC strives to uphold and the...um...well...the lack thereof (for lack of a better way of saying it) in the SCC's territory...lies a sweet spot that probably 9 out of 10 climbers east of the Mississippi and South of the Mason-Dixon line could accept.
^^^this...+1
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Let's call it the Geezer South. Somewhere, and where better, than the Deeper South to keep some ethic real. Out west, we have BLM land. Up NE, it's similar but more people, less rural, and more regs. If we can all rally, that's best. Keep it dirty down here.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

P.S....
Can someone link me to the Huntsville Community Forum, upoming?
I do not have Facebook.

Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10

Friday the 19th at 7 pm. Straight to ale brewing.
m.facebook.com/events/10530…
You should be able to see the event without actually having a Facebook account.

Jeff Mekolites · · Atlanta, GA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 5,250

some additional comments and discussion here...

seclimbers.org/modules/Foru…

Jeff Mekolites · · Atlanta, GA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 5,250
Paul Barnes wrote:Here is some language being CONSIDERED as far as a stance by the SCC on ethics / best practices. "The SCC shall preserve the ecological and recreational value and all other unique characteristics of SCC managed property. The SCC shall, to the best of it's ability, follow the guidelines set out in Standard 12 of the Land Trust Standards and Practices to implement a “program of responsible stewardship for the land it holds in fee for conservation purposes.” ...!
I can live with that...
Jeff Mekolites · · Atlanta, GA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 5,250
Paul Barnes wrote:I found this interesting...as well as relevant to some recent discussions we've had down here in God's Country bout ehtics and such...see the pics and comments. mountainproject.com/v/geeze…
You see some of the same comments there as you do here...everyone wants to bolt everything...

Paul Barnes wrote:I actually brought up at the meeting that I think Southeastern climbers have been done somewhat of a disservice by having two camps (the SCC and the CCC) when it comes to ethics. I, personally, believe that somewhere between the staunch traditional ethic that the CCC strives to uphold and the...um...well...the lack thereof (for lack of a better way of saying it) in the SCC's territory...lies a sweet spot that probably 9 out of 10 climbers east of the Mississippi and South of the Mason-Dixon line could accept. I'm not saying merge the two or anything of the sort...just an observation.
Agreed.
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Saw something on the SCC message board about Castle Rock bolting. Sport climbers assuring that they had done their due diligence as far as asking if a route had been done on gear before bolting it.

My question is:

They're RAP bolting this stuff...shouldn't they be able to tell if a route will go on gear? Maybe TRY to send the thing on gear...preplace some...give it a go...thoroughly suss it out for all the possibilities. Maybe just bolt the unprotectable sections if there are any?

What are err body's thoughts? Not tryin to start a shitshow...I just wanna know where everybody's at on it.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Well, I reckon I'll show up in Huntsvegas.
I hope we're all ready to answer some questions.

Ryan7crew · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 485

Great news! You should stick around for the trail day on Saturday!

taipan jam · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 30

Seems you are suggesting that pre-placed pro is trad climbing...? I would posit that is nothing even close to trad climbing...

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Not at all. I'm just saying that if you're rap bolting a crag...you could suss out some placements in advance while you're swingin around on a rope. Ideally you'd sack up and take off from the ground and see what was presented to you...but I fear we are rapidly saying goodbye to those days...unfortunately.

In case I haven't made my own personal stance clear to those who don't know me...I'm opposed to bolting near protectable features in almost all cases. There are exceptions. But, they are very few and far between...like big horizontal roofs where gear would be almost impossible to retrieve on rappel if a second failed.

taipan jam · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 30

Hmm that still seems extremely shaky as "trad"... "Pre inspection"? Even in Britain that is known as a bit "hang doggy" if you catch my drift.

Then again, the guys who taught me trad were "no frigg'n" type of fellas...

taipan jam · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 30

Also, (lol) rap bolting is about as far from trad as it gets imo. I have established many routes ground up...and rap bolted a few myself...

The better ethic is ground up. JMO but I think most trads and actually even many sportos would agree...

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

I agree with you. I think ground up, onsight is the way it should be done. I wish we had never gotten away from it. Unfortunately...rap bolting has taken over down here in these parts...to the detriment of some really cool crags. That's kinda why we're having this discussion. But every time someone says something like that we get the whole "time machine" argument again. A lot of folks have just given up and accepted pre-inspection and rap bolting as the new norm. I wish this were not the case.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern States
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