Remedial draw hanging

What is the thinking about inverting the top (bolt-side) caribiner on a draw after clipping so that the gates on the biners (both the rope and bolt) are facing down?

FourT6and2 wrote: I think you misread my question. I didn't ask about installing the bolt in various orientations. I asked if it matters which way the bolt-end biner is oriented (i.e. the biner on your draw that you clip to the bolt). Should you clip it from the right or from the left. From the right, the gate is facing left. From the left, the gate is facing right. This is a separate issue from the rope-end biner, which should have the "spine to the line." But another poster answered my question :)

Guess I did misintepret it a bit,just I´ve never considered what the installer thinks about how a climbers draws are set up is relevant. My draws are both spines the same side and my brothers opposite, he´s right handed and I´m left but we just put the bolts in where they work best. If it´s a problem then flip the top biner anyway.

Jim Titt wrote: Guess I did misintepret it a bit,just I´ve never considered what the installer thinks about how a climbers draws are set up is relevant. My draws are both spines the same side and my brothers opposite, he´s right handed and I´m left but we just put the bolts in where they work best. If it´s a problem then flip the top biner anyway.

How do you flip a biner during a climb?

I guess you'd have to lower off the route and set up your draws differently then re-climb?

Or, if you watch the above video, it would make sense to always have your draws with the biners facing the same way. That way your bolt-end biner is always spine-to-the-line and it wont unclip if the draw flips.

FourT6and2 wrote: How do you flip a biner during a climb? I guess you'd have to lower off the route and set up your draws differently then re-climb? Or, if you watch the above video, it would make sense to always have your draws with the biners facing the same way. That way your bolt-end biner is always spine-to-the-line and it wont unclip if the draw flips.

you flip the bolt side biner upside down by rotating it, which is easy to do mid climb

Phil Esra wrote:It seems to me like the biner would fail at a measurably lower force if the biner were clipped as in the pic below--the hanger would transmit the force further out toward the nose of the biner, where the top edge of the hole contacts the biner. No?

I agree clipping with the gate facing left into the metolious hanger at the top of this thread seems less than perfect. It doesn't load the carabiner optimally, and it sits a little unnaturally.

However, while I don't have evidence to prove this, I doubt it reduces the strength significantly. The load point does not exactly move very far in the nose direction, and the gate remains closed (to my knowledge, it's exclusively when the gate opens that frightening things happen). Also consider techniques like the munter hitch similarly move the load closer to the nose.

I realize I'm speculating which is not great science.

Anyway, at the end of the day it's a compromise. As the video earlier in the thread shows, clipping with the gate in your direction of travel can potentially make it easy for the carabiner to unclip. That's much more concerning to me than a small reduction in carabiner strength.

If I'm climbing straight up the middle of the bolt line, and a fall will be straight down the bolt line, I do preferentially clip with the gate facing right (again, if we are talking about the metolious hanger pictured at the top of the thread).