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REI destroys all returned climbing gear

Original Post
Jonathan Cunha · · Bolinas, CA · Joined May 2014 · Points: 62

As the title say, REI (and certain other retailers) will destroy all returned load rated climbing gear (not shoes/ etc) regardless of condition. So if you return a belay device in new condition (in the package) it will be destroyed. Return that set of unused quick draws your friend gave you for Xmas--boom gone. New rope, still zip tied and wrapped and plastic???...gone. Bought that harness to try on at home and it doesn't fit...gone.

Now while I think the costumer service policy at REI can be really helpful, I think they should either clearly state 1): that the piece of gear you are buying will be destroyed (if you bring it back) or 2): do the logical thing--and not accept any returns on structurally rated climbing gear. I think most people assume that if they return something in new condition, it gets put back on the shelf--this is not true for climbing gear and I don't see this being very sustainable or cost effective...OK rant of the day over.

Any thoughts? Comments?

mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120

Some retailers refuse any returns on climbing gear for the same reason. Certainly possible liability involved, but not sure about any actual legal mandates.

How does this knowledge change your decisions as a climbing gear consumer?

The only thing I might consider is to not give a gift of new climbing gear, but instead give a gift card so the person can make their own decisions what they want to buy.

Bill Shubert · · Lexington, MA · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 55

I'm glad REI has a generous return policy. It's too bad that stuff gets destroyed, but I buy a lot of climbing there specifically because of the return policy; if they changed it I would shop somewhere else. So far I've only returned one thing: A pair of climbing shoes that got a rip in the leather after only 3 months of moderate use.

I started doing this after a bad experience: I bought my first harness at a local shop, decided it wasn't right for me, and returned it unopened. The store receipt clearly stated at the bottom that there was a 15 day return policy on ALL merchandise, but they refused to give me the refund (and wouldn't take the harness back) because it was "unsafe" for them to restock it. I got the money back anyway by going through the credit card company, and since then I almost always go to REI.

drock3 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 13

wait, why do you care?

They've made a business decision to accept returns on climbing gear. Obviously it's possible to run a successful outdoor retailer as such. I don't abuse the policy but I do return gear that I'm not satisfied with even if I know it's going to be destroyed. At the same time I buy a lot of gear at REI vs other places because I know that if it sucks, I can get something else.

Karsten Duncan · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 2,571

Would they take back and destroy those hand-jammies you have in your profile pic?

Jesse Marks · · Denver, CO · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 330

I think the reason to care is that knowing might impact our decisions on what to return. I know I am now more hesitant to return climbing gear I could conceivably use if I know it is simply being thrown away... though I also agree it is nice to at least have that option if something just absolutely doesn't work for me. :)

mucci · · sf ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 655

Many years ago, I noticed that my local REI did not have pitons on display anymore. A week prior they were stocked to the hilt.

I asked a employee what happened to the pins....

He told me they were on clearance for a while and now they were all going to be destroyed.

I said, well, how much can I buy all of them for?

He checked with a manager, and I offered $75 for over 125 pitons.

SOLD!

Slam dunk, I made so much money on the beaks alone.

Destroying NEW climbing gear..

I still hate REI.

Dave Bn · · Boise, ID · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10

I'm not sure this is true.

In my less honest days, I bought one of the super-long pickets, took it on a trip and placed it once by pounding it in with the head of my ice-axe, pounding it in made a small nick in the aluminum that I just happened to notice.

I returned this picket the next week (too long) and a week later I was back in a noticed this exact picket for sale hanging on the rack, aluminum nick and all.

Word from a friend who worked at REI was that it was up to the managers discretion to decide which product returned to the shelf and which were destroyed.

Ti ck · · souf yeast · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 1,760

yea why does this matter at all? you say it is not a "sustainable business practice" but within the first 5 comments there are several people saying this is exactly why they shop at REI.

Consider this I buy a harness, throw it in the back of my pickup truck with a can of gas that gets knocked over on my way home because that homeless guy was one hell of a speed bump and the harness's belay loop gets 100% soaked in gas for a week but the tags and everything look brand new. I take it back to retailer X next week for a return because the burnt umber doesn't match my belly button ring like I thought. The harness goes back on the shelf and you are the next buyer.

The product looks fine but has been subjected to some serious chemical degradation. This is why retailers do this, so you don't buy something that will kill you.

Your argument is similar to arguing that they should take the safety seals off medications, beverages and other products because there is a cost associated with it and there is too much plastic. That tiny bit of cost and plastic has saved lives period.

REI's tiny bit of cost to destroy returned safety equipment does a couple things
-consumers return without hassle
-trust what they are buying
-they avoid potential lawsuits

those three reasons are why it IS a sustainable business practice.

abandonedaccount1 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 5
Karsten wrote:Would they take back and destroy those hand-jammies you have in your profile pic?
Shots fired.
Jonathan Cunha · · Bolinas, CA · Joined May 2014 · Points: 62

For me, I think it's about awareness. REI touts itself as a green company (and a co-op), so why not ask their members to accept some responsibility for their purchases? Instead of "just buy both harness sizes and return the one that doesn't fit" why not just say "please try the harness on at the store as we will have to destroy it if you return it".

Maybe that's too much to ask in this shop till you drop culture we have created...

Karsten--those are OCUNS :) and hey at least I'm outside--climbing a 5.10+ wide hand crack with them...

GabeO · · Boston, MA · Joined May 2006 · Points: 302
drock3 wrote:wait, why do you care? They've made a business decision to accept returns on climbing gear. Obviously it's possible to run a successful outdoor retailer as such. I don't abuse the policy but I do return gear that I'm not satisfied with even if I know it's going to be destroyed. At the same time I buy a lot of gear at REI vs other places because I know that if it sucks, I can get something else.
He cares because there are jerks like you who take advantage of it, obviously. If everyone was cool it would be no problem.

BTW, I suspect this is part of the reason why REI carries about a quarter of the climbing gear they did when I started climbing, 15 years ago. And that is why I almost never shop at REI any more.

GO
Artem B · · Vancouver, BC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0

Imagine you're working at REI, someone returns 3 brand new shiny C4 cams and your manager tells you to 'destroy' them. What would you do? That's what happens.

Ti ck · · souf yeast · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 1,760

I think the morality of keeping people safe trumps the "green" thing all day every day and so does REI.

Same applies to safety seals on food and medicine products, we could probably save several tons of plastic if we removed them but lets not, those things provide us a fail safe.

Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

I agree that knowing is nice. I returned a stove once to buy a different one, because it just wasn't working well for me. I knew it would be resold, and would get used, so I figured it was a win all the way around.

But for climbing gear, unless it's dangerous/broken, I will always keep it or give it to a friend. "I really don't like this ATC that much, BUT I could totally keep it as my backup". Or, "I don't like this ATC, but John lost his, here you go John". I don't want it destroyed.

mucci wrote:Destroying NEW climbing gear.. I still hate REI.
Don't hate the player, hate the (liability) game...

GabeO wrote:He cares because there are jerks like you who take advantage of it, obviously. If everyone was cool it would be no problem.
Same thing goes for the reduction in return policy. Used to be lifetime, now it's one year. Why? Because of jerks who took advantage.
coldatom · · Cambridge, MA · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 70

You might care simply b/c you don't want to be wasteful, REI's bottom line aside.

When I was starting, I bought and returned some Wild Country Zeros from Backcountry. I had no idea they were going to destroy them. I was just shopping like you would at Zappos. Order it. Have a look. Return if you don't like. I never would have done that had I known. I would have just waited to check them out in a gear shop.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

I don't want to buy a "new" product for a "new" price, on which my life may depend, having to worry if someone has compromised its integrity in some way. I could see them allowing staff to take the gear for free though, rather than destroy it, and let them use it at their own risk. That could be a nice job perk.

I guess some people will buy gear to test it, try it, decide they don't like it and take it back. But I don't think many people are this way.

johnnyrig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 105

As explained by an actual climber who works at my local REI:
They destroy returned climbing gear, often against the employee's better judgement. Disheartening to those of us who hate to see it happen, as well as at least this particular employee. He said it's usually noobs, trying out the sport and deciding it isn't for them. And thus, they don't understand what they're doing, even when told the gear gets destroyed.

Now, you'd think maybe the noob would go ahead and sell it at a slight discount as "practically new used climbing gear"; but think how often noobs are advised to buy new so they're not risking their lives. Now why would a noob then think it's ok to SELL used gear? Kinda makes sense...

Meanwhile, REI would, I think, be even less likely to allow employees to keep returned gear than post it up for resale, considering they're destroying the gear due to liability concerns. No doubt the first person to get injured would claim they value employee safety less than customer safety.

Josh Allred · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 161

I know for a fact that they don't destroy ALL returned gear at REI. I used to work there. They have a quality control person that examines everything that is returned and decides if its okay to go back on the floor, go back for the garage sale or sent to be destroyed. Climbing gear is either destroyed or goes back to the floor depending on its condition.

Suburban Roadside · · Abovetraffic on Hudson · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 2,419

The sad case that really changed the REI Coop was the failure of a harness that was not used properly.

The climber was tied into only one of two points and fell ripping out of the harness.
The youth,style high tie in points on the blue harnesses were not weak or to blame but the ruling was that both tie in points should have been capable of holding a fall. REI was held liable,or negligence was attributed to them.

I was not a party involved, I liked and used the style of harness,

When the REI hired an outside risk management company the changes started.
Risk managers do not care about costs per say, they care about avoiding risk.
Law suits are at the top of the list of risks to avoid.

Sean Brady · · Boulder, Colorado · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 125

I hope to God and all that is holy that they destroy returned climbing gear. Who knows what happened to that?

Buying used guy from someone is one thing - they trusted their life on it, and by selling it they imply you should be able to do the same thing. Doesn't always work that way, but most of the time its cool. Buying something second hand from just any asshat that shops at REI and returns it? Scaaaaaary.

Yeah, it sucks, but it's What Baby America Jesus Would Do.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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