rack simulator/ seneca stanard rack

going to try to kill 2 birds with one stone.

first I heard about spadout.com which had a racking simulator which would tell you where you can climb with what gear you have. it would appear spadout is no longer and im wondering if anyone knows of a working simulator out there.

second, this came about because I was trying to research a good standard rack for going to Seneca. im very much a trad gumby and I would like to go to Seneca once ive got my feet pretty wet.

any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,
Kurt

For most sub-5.10 routes at Seneca, you want a standard rack - no need for specialty pieces. Doubles in C4 asked cams (.4-3), singles in smaller cams (c3 sizes) and a full range of nuts will suffice for most of the classics. There is generally no need for brassies, micros, etc, until you get into some of the higher grades or faces.

When I first started out at Seneca I did Old mans, old ladies, Le Gourmet E Jr etc with a set of .5-3 BD C4s, a set of TCUs, a set of Tricams and a set of nuts. That worked pretty good but doubles of .5 and .75 come in handy.

Be sure to look around for when to extend your placements there.

I'm a relatively new trad leader, and I had C4 doubles .4-3, singles .3, 4, 5, full set of nuts, tricams, hexes 8-10. I was able to sew up most of my easy/moderate climbs at Seneca without issue. Coulda probably gone with less but I'm a big baby.

hexes work very well at Seneca.

Other than that, just a standard rack
1 set nuts
1 set C4s
1 set small cams

Will get you up most things.

RPs are good for some of the thinner climbs and there are a few cracks where doubling up on hand/sized cams might be helpful.

Tricams work well there too.

Thanks for the input guys. that's very helpful

Ditto BrianWS suggestion above, although if you don't have doubles of all the cams you can supplement some of them with hexes. Just remember that at Seneca you're building all your belay anchors with gear, so it's generally a little more "gear intensive " than other places with bolted belays.

Keep in mind most of the classics were put up before cams. For the classics you can get away with a set of stoppers and a set of hexes with doubles in the mid range. Along with that a dozen or so alpine draws and a few longer slings and you can get up most of the classics.

You admit you are new to the game. That said you will probably want a somewhat larger rack than someone with a lot more experience. You won't be quite as good at finding placements or quite as comfortable doing so. And you will probably not be as comfortable facing longer runouts. So my two cents is that a larger rack is a good idea in your case - a few extra pounds carried is better than having to face long runouts due to a lack of the proper piece of pro. I don't think going doubles on most of your cams would be a bad idea at all. A set and a half of nuts - a few smaller Tricams, and a set and a half or better of the cams of your choice. Yep that makes a big rack but it also will make you safe as you learn. And as you get better - no one says you have to carry everything you own on every climb.

Tricams.

I have never needed to place a single tricam at seneca. Hexes should be fine for many of the moderate trade routes. Standard cams and nuts are the way to go, simply because such a setup will:

a) allow you to climb not only the sub-5.5 routes, but also many routes well into the 5.10 and up range.

b) be useful in many other areas, namely the New and the Gunks.

Hexes are limiting, as they simply don't have the versatility of active pro. They're fine for chucking into the uneven cracks and bottlenecks at Seneca, but they're heavy, cumbersome, and outdated. If you have any interest in climbing grades beyond the 5.singledigit range, invest in cams now, rather than putting money into pro that you will have little use for outside of Old Man's, Cockscomb, etc.

If doubling up on cams is too costly, invest in singles and share gear with climbing partners.

Ernest W wrote:Ditto BrianWS suggestion above, although if you don't have doubles of all the cams you can supplement some of them with hexes. Just remember that at Seneca you're building all your belay anchors with gear, so it's generally a little more "gear intensive " than other places with bolted belays.

Climbed there for many years without doubles. And for some of those years without hexes either.

So if you are low on cash, one set should do just fine if you are prudent with your gear placements. If you really like to sew it up then you may run into problems.

Edited to add:
As mentioned above, your partner may likely have a rack so in the odd case where you really need doubles, you can just grab his as doubles.

Granted, I'm old, but I climbed for years at Seneca with stoppers, hexes, 2 tricams, and in later years a green, pink, and gold Camelot. .5,.75, and 3)

Don't be afraid to sling chock stones, trees, slower climbers.

Bill Kirby wrote: Be sure to look around for when to extend your placements there.

+1
To add to the rack suggestions, I agree that it's important at Seneca to extend your placements. The moderates tend to wander, and the rock is featured such that cams can easily get stuck if they're clipped short. Also, if you're a 5.9 leader I'd start at 5.7-.8 to get a acquainted with the sandbag. :)

Doug S wrote: +1 To add to the rack suggestions, I agree that it's important at Seneca to extend your placements. The moderates tend to wander, and the rock is featured such that cams can easily get stuck if they're clipped short. Also, if you're a 5.9 leader I'd start at 5.7-.8 to get a acquainted with the sandbag. :)

And obviously beware the 5.9+ (or any route with a + after it).

Thanks for all the input guys! very helpful.

anyone have any suggestions about a rack simulator?

kurt gregory wrote:Thanks for all the input guys! very helpful. anyone have any suggestions about a rack simulator?

in some of the supertopo guidebooks they have a chart with how all the sizes overlap.

Stagg54 wrote: in some of the supertopo guidebooks they have a chart with how all the sizes overlap.

http://www.mountainproject.com/images/6/4/107960604_large_99ecb6.jpg
try this.

kurt gregory wrote:Thanks for all the input guys! very helpful. anyone have any suggestions about a rack simulator?

"Standard racks" vary much less than you might think. I've used virtually the same rack in Yosemite, NH, the Gunks, RRG, Seneca...

cjdrover wrote: "Standard racks" vary much less than you might think. I've used virtually the same rack in Yosemite, NH, the Gunks, RRG, Seneca...

I have what might be called my base rack that I carry all the time on routes I haven't climbed before and don't know what is needed. I'll add more small or large pieces to that depending on guide book notes or other climbers recommendations. I have found that as rope lengths have increased over the years - so has the size of the rack I carry. It takes a lot more pieces to protect a 70 meter pitch than it did a 45 meter pitch (standard when I started).