climb tech wave bolt on overhangs?

Title pretty much says it... Does anyone have experience with using clkimbtech wave bolts on overhangs? I've got an area I'm working on that has some 20 degree overhung routes, and I've been considering using the wave bolts, but not sure how that would work with an overhang like that....

Why wouldn't it? Glue-ins have high pull-out strength.

That's a good bolt for the job, Micah - unlike most glue-ins, Wave Bolts won't slide out of a hole drilled at an upward angle. Glue-in bolting is a bit trickier than using mechanicals, though, so do your homework before starting a project. Also Waves are fairly difficult to drive in (the $40 installation tool REALLY helps), and, unlike other glue-ins, pretty much impossible to remove if you make a mistake such as not injecting enough glue.

Generally speaking, that's what Wave bolts and other "interference" glue-in bolts are designed for (also Jim Titt/Bolt Products Twisted Leg bolts, Titan Climbing Eterna titanium bolts). In most rock types they will work awesome for overhangs. The exception is soft sandstone, where the bolt may not hold super well since the hole after drilling, brushing, blowing, brushing, blowing, etc tends to get wallowed out a bit too much. But even in soft rock, they will be way better than a standard glue-in as far as holding on overhangs while the glue sets.

Gunkiemike wrote:Why wouldn't it? Glue-ins have high pull-out strength.

I'm not worried about pullout strength after cure, I was thinking of the fact that I have to clip into the bolt to even be close enough to the wall to even think about drilling the next hole. Even then its steep enough that its hard... Haha
J achey, Greg, thx for the info, that's what I was looking to find out!

John Wilder wrote: you have two options in that case. 1) If you're developing ground up, then you should use ClimbTech's Removable Bolts (RB's) and hide the holes in pockets or patch them after you leave them. This can be expensive, though, as you'll need a full route's worth of these little tools (or more than a couple, at least). 2) Leave the old bolts in place so you can ascend and place the new bolts, then come back and chop the old ones. This is less than awesome, as it means you can't re-use the hole, but its the only practical way if you're installing glue-ins.

Another option to the removable bolt, but a bit more labor intensive (but quite a bit cheaper) is to use some cheap redhead sleeve anchors as temporary bolts for directionals.

Drill your hole and set the red head about halfway in with a hanger on it. Tighten it down, clip in and keep working. When your done, undo the bolt, push the stud in and grab the sleeve with some needle nose vice grips and pull it out. Patch the hole and move on.

In effect, it's a make shift legacy bolt when used this way

You can hang on the wave bolts immediately. That is the original design purpose.

If the rock is hard...you'll be good using the Wave's immediately....but if you have some concerns (due to soft rock or otherwise {perhaps getting the placement in the right spot}) consider using ClimbTech's Legacy bolts to get all the holes drilled (up or down the route)..then rap/jug back up/down and trade out the Legacy's for the Wave's.

If you are having to lead bolt and not 100% sure on the right placements...climb it using the Legacy's a few times to be sure of the locations before putting in the near permanent Wave's.

You can get enough legacy's for one route and use them over and over using this technique.

If you use the Wave Bolts and you don't have the stainless steel installation tool, make sue you don't hammer directly on the bolt with your metal hammer. Use a nylon, wood or rubber mallet, or at least use something like a block of wood between. (I have been using the nylon handle of my brush) Hammering directly with a regular metal hammer causes corrosion problems.

M Sprague wrote:If you use the Wave Bolts and you don't have the stainless steel installation tool, make sue you don't hammer directly on the bolt with your metal hammer. Use a nylon, wood or rubber mallet, or at least use something like a block of wood between. (I have been using the nylon handle of my brush) Hammering directly with a regular metal hammer causes corrosion problems.

I've had good success with a "clown nose" made from a hand ball. The rubber is dense enough to transmit the force of the hammer well, and tough enough not to split.

I used an Xacto knife to cut the hole and oiled the rubber as I went. Don't cut your fingers!!! The crack you see in the photo wasn't intentional, but it was actually an improvement making it easier to get the nose on and off.

A "clown nose" made from an old handball allows you to use your regular hammer to pound in stainless or titanium, interference-type, glue-in bolts. I used an oiled razor knife to cut the hole.

The crack was unintentional but actually works better making it easier to get on and off.

M Sprague wrote:If you use the Wave Bolts and you don't have the stainless steel installation tool, make sue you don't hammer directly on the bolt with your metal hammer. Use a nylon, wood or rubber mallet, or at least use something like a block of wood between. (I have been using the nylon handle of my brush) Hammering directly with a regular metal hammer causes corrosion problems.

I weld a piece of 6mm stainless plate on the hammer face.

You can get a rubber mallet. They arnt exactly expensive.

$9 shipped amazon.com/TEKTON-30505-Han…

20 kN wrote:You can get a rubber mallet. They arnt exactly expensive. $9 shipped amazon.com/TEKTON-30505-Han…

I considered this too but I also considered that my bolting kit was FHE*, and adding another hammer didn't appeal to me!

But seriously, I have a "standard" rubber mallet here at home, and I don't think it has the mass to seat an interference bolt as well as you might want given the tolerances of the bolt and hole.

• F-ing Heavy Enough! ;-) ;-)

Omega Pacific makes a stainless hammer.

dnoB ekiM wrote:Omega Pacific makes a stainless hammer.

So does black diamond, but both those hammers are expensive and heavy.

Once you get involved in bolting the hammer could be made from gold where cost is involved:-)

Jim Titt wrote:Once you get involved in bolting the hammer could be made from gold where cost is involved:-)

Very true Jim, but i'd still rather spend the money on more bolts rather than a golden hammer;)

Seriously, do not use a rubber mallet.

I have never been so frustrated and embarrassed. I have a Wave Bolt sticking half out of its hole at the anchors of one my climbs from trying to use a mallet and having the glue harden before I could get my real hammer out to fix it. I felt like an idiot, wasted a bolt, and immediately threw the hammer away.

Sounds like more of an issue of the adhesive kicking too fast due to warm temps. We've enjoyed using these plastic mallets , but we keep a Wave bolt installation tool and a steel hammer handy.

It's also worth noting that if you do not need the Wave Bolt to support a load before the epoxy cures, you're better off getting a 9/16" or 5/8" bit to drill the hole. Having the bolt sit under great residual stress for its entire lifespan could cause corrosion issues (specifically, stress cracking corrosion) down the road. You can drill the hole out with a 1/2" bit, then drill the last 2"-3" with a 5/8" or 9/16" bit. That will allow you to hand place the bolt (or almost).

20 kN wrote:It's also worth noting that if you do not need the Wave Bolt to support a load before the epoxy cures, you're better off getting a 9/16" or 5/8" bit to drill the hole. Having the bolt sit under great residual stress for its entire lifespan could cause corrosion issues (specifically, stress cracking corrosion) down the road. You can drill the hole out with a 1/2" bit, then drill the last 1" or 2" with a 5/8" or 9/16" bit. That will allow you to hand place the bolt (or almost).

This is a great suggestion. Thanks! I already have a 9/16 bit anyway that I used for some beefy anchor bolts I ended up with. Score.