Attaching aiders to daisies

Hi, I attach both my daises and aiders to a single oval locker and clip the piece with that. This is simple and means I'm standing as high as possible on the piece. However it is a pain as I often want to remove the aiders at belays etc.

I know others clip the aider to the daisy's locker with a carabiner, this means the aiders are easy to remove, but this means I'd be standing one carabiner length lower. Other's do it the other way around: clip the aider to the piece and the clip the daisy's locker to the aider's carabiner.

Some people add in another oval to clip the piece with.

Some people clip their daisy through the main attachment point on the aider, not to the aider's carabiner.

Some people clip the daisy to the grab handle of the aider.

I'm lost. All views and comments on what works best welcomed. I'm 5ft 7in and only use two aiders.

Thanks.

"clip the aider to the piece and the clip the daisy's locker to the aider's carabiner"

I've been doing this. Also I've been using lockers, but I'm a clueless newb. While this is probably not a horribly interesting or important topic, I'm curious if anyone has a system that they have found to be ideal?

I use the two aider (ladders) / two daisy chains technique and keep my daisy and aider clipped to the same biner.

Russ,

So you only have one daisy then? Interesting

Also I personally couldn't clip the piece before placing because I'm not always correct with my gear choice, but you may have a little more experience than me ;)

And I do what Bob does. I like it a lot. Nice and simple, not so many biners everywhere.

I use a double aider system with long yates ladders and bd etriers in conjunction.
A yates adj. daisey goes right into the biner with the two aiders.... a BD wiregate oval works well for this.
I also employ a regular daisy for a third that I use for testing etc.
I know it sounds like alot on one biner but if you use a large oval it slides aroud nice. A notchless carabiner works pretty good too.

EE

just finished up on Bad to the bone
hands hurting because yates adjustable daisys buckle system is sprung way harder on the newest generation ones. they changed the webbing to a different weave that initially slips easier but after one wall abraided to a point where you cant press the buckle hard enuf to make it slip....I mean you gotta pull hard.
also bought a new cliff cabana fly that is a complete piece of crap.

the gear these days is way less consistant than in years past

cheers
EE

I have two daisies girth hitched to my harness, ending in aid screamers, single ovaled to my etriers. One etrier on each daisy.

I started with the two daisy, 4 aider system... Too much cluster, especially for soloing.

I tried two daisy, 3 aiders; standing in two, moving the third up to to test, and then chasing it with the second. Once set, I'd move the first up to the next placement... lots of clipping and unclipping and oh forget it, too much work

Then I tried the Mac system, both feet in one etrier, move the other etrier up and both feet to that and it's a total pain to mash the second foot into a weighted etrier...and my feet skated and I'm hanging sideways from, oh forget it, too much work

And I settled, for now, on my 2x daisy ovaled to etrier, plus "fat basket" system:

- place piece. (It's not clipped to anything while I'm placing it, unless I'm worried about it, in which case I clip it to the piece of 1.5mm x 3' that's wrapped around my wrist. To control it, I whip it around my wrist and tuck the tail end into my watch band. Velcro band.)
- clip quickdraw to piece (I do this before the aiders so that, once I've clipped the rope to it, the rest of the mess is outboard and it makes it easy for me to move on to the next bit of work)
- add secondary 'fat basket' biner to piece (I found this gives extra distance off the wall, making it WAY easier to clip/ unclip my etriers. This single decision probably cut my time on every pitch by one third)
- clip daisy/aider combo to piece. Test (Somehow, I can't wrap my heart around disconnecting these two. I've dropped two pieces of gear in my life, and dropped my aiders twenty five times in the last year.)
- Tested out? Good, shift my weight to it, unclip lower aider
- lower aider moves up and becomes Outer aider(I define Inner and Outer; they are clipped to the same fat basket, but getting the Inner [between Outer and granite] biner loose before the Outer is nearly impossible)
- unclip lower fat basket biner, clip to chest harness, release and hook fifi to chest harness if in use. Clip lead line to quickdraw. (I tie my chest harness with a bow, and cinch the bights down pretty tight, which gives my a great spot to secure the point end of my fifi when it's not in use)
- move up as high as needed (I notice a lot of people get right up to the 2nd step. With my aiders, my feet in the 2nd step means the piece is at my knees, and I'm cantilevered with about about 24" of adjustable fifi line from waist to piece... This is VERY slow for me, and I've found that at my height and reach (6'2", 8'1" reach up) it's faster for me to stay in my 3d steps if I can, even making more placements)
- Repeat

"- add secondary 'fat basket' biner to piece (I found this gives extra distance off the wall, making it WAY easier to clip/ unclip my etriers. This single decision probably cut my time on every pitch by one third) "

Hi,
1. is this fat basket bin clipped to the cam directly, or to the cam's biner?
2. if the biner on the aiders is clipped to this, aren't your feet one biner length lower than they need be?
3. and what is a "fat basket carabiner"?

Thanks

David,

-1.clipped to the cam directly, unless I need the racking biner to give extension out of a deep crack.
-2. Yeah, my feet are one biner length lower than they need to be.
-3. By "Fat Basket" biner I'm refering to some of those ginormous opening bent gates from the sport climbing era. The ones I'm using are almost a half-mushroom in shape. Opening something on the order of 30mm. Any biner with a huge gate opening would do the trick. Petzl Djinn?

Hey Russ,
good point. The cord isn't rated for more than 45#, but 45# over a very small area could make a pretty nice slice in the ol' bod. Re think time. I "drop tested" the cord to make sure it would hold some gear, but I hadn't thought of the cord holding me. Visions of Monty Python's Black Knight on the wall.

Not much mention on not clipping the aiders too anything. Chris Mac recommend this for speed, I'm not sure why. Seems like you would easily drop your aider I a fall and not have adjustable daisies to help when top stepping

I'm relatively new to aiding, but I use the same 2x aider/daisy/biner that Bob and TKrosbakken mentioned. FWIW, I learned it during a big wall session with Ammon McNeely.

It sounds like the only issue is with removing the aiders. I tend to agree with others that removing them invites dropping them. Personally, if I don't need them (section of free, at a belay, etc.), I just clip a few steps of the ladder into the biner (another good reason for a big biner) and clip them off on my harness. If you're at a belay and need to anchor, use the rope.