Tallulah Gorge Peregrines
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Paul Barnes wrote: Yeah I dont think I'd put anything about bolting routes all over Lookout Mountain, Signal Mountain, Mowbray Mountain, and Monteagle Mountain on there either if I were them.Obviously what I meant was they didn't announce getting the money (which is pretty atypical, at the CCC we'll sure as heck let you know when someone gives us a grant, just try to avoid our spray), didn't issue the comment you are having issues with, etc. In other words, you're getting upset over words the SCC didn't say and which I seriously doubt are accurate given where they did come from. |
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If this were mine to give I'd let y'all borrow it for the meeting. But, surely someone attending has a copy. It has a lot of info on who retro'd each line. |
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Oh...so it didn't happen. How nice. |
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Brian Payst wrote: Obviously what I meant was they didn't announce getting the money (which is pretty atypical, at the CCC we'll sure as heck let you know when someone gives us a grant, just try to avoid our spray), didn't issue the comment you are having issues with, etc. In other words, you're getting upset over words the SCC didn't say and which I seriously doubt are accurate given where they did come from.Brian.... I'm sorry to say that this is, in fact, the case. There are, in fact, SCC funded bolts and stations splattered all over the sandstone belt where they do not belong. Forget that the UNFoundation posted it. I am telling you this is the case. Tyler has indicated it to be the case above. IT HAS HAPPENED. Good work on you guys at Table Rock, SC BTW. Keeping hope alive. |
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BHMBen wrote: Brian.... I'm sorry to say that this is, in fact, the case. There are, in fact, SCC funded bolts and stations splattered all over the sandstone belt where they do not belong. Forget that the UNFoundation posted it. I am telling you this is the case. Tyler has indicated it to be the case above. IT HAS HAPPENED. Good work on you guys at Table Rock, SC BTW. Keeping hope alive.Not arguing that at all, just that the quote people were getting upset about likely wasn't accurate and did not come from the SCC so blaming them for it isn't accurate. Like I said, I don't condone retro-bolting no matter who is pulling the trigger on the drill. I wish we could make further progress at Table Rock, but SC land managers are tough when it comes to climbing. Seems to be slowly changing and hopefully it will keep getting better. |
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Ok...I'm just fuckin dense....so ya gotta spell it out for me. Which thing is not true...the Unfund didn't give the SCC money with the agreement that they would bolt 35 new routes with it?, or The SCC did get the money but didn't use it to bolt new routes all over the damn place? Which thing is inaccurate? |
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Paul Barnes wrote:Ok...I'm just fuckin dense....so ya gotta spell it out for me. Which thing is not true...the Unfund didn't give the SCC money with the agreement that they would bolt 35 new routes with it?, or The SCC did get the money but didn't use it to bolt new routes all over the damn place? Which thing is inaccurate?I don't know. Not enough info there and who knows if the write-up is accurate or just marketing fluff. I certainly hope this isn't accurate: "There will be a core curriculum that the ukelele projects draw from, ultimately enabling groups from all over the city to potentially come together and play in one large ensemble." That scares the crap out of me. |
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Paul Barnes wrote: Which thing is inaccurate? Brian Payst wrote: I don't know.I don't even know what to say now after all that. Just damn. |
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As one of those who got Table Rock opened in the 1990's, I am sorry that we couldn't get the falcon closure better managed. I argued then, and now, that blanket closures are usually not necessary. Certainly not on a wall as vast as Table. Even blanket closures should be monitored and lifted once the chicks fledge or it is determined there are none. Forest Service in NC does a pretty good job of that. We lost that battle, but won the war of getting climbing opened up in a state where it had not been previously. Hopefully GA Parks will listen and learn. |
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Brian, the UnFoundation gave the party in question $2000 in 2012 to buy bolts for the creation of new climbs as their website says. Part of the grant deal is that recipients return to the UnFoundation board to give a presentation as to how the money was spent. The recipient's own presentation is, no doubt, where the website statement came from. |
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Here you go... |
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Just shows that leaping to conclusions about internet posts isn't necessarily the best way to go. |
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Not sure what you mean, Brian, but I'm pretty sure the SCC doesn't want anyone delving into their handling of Deep Creek. |
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Todd Wells wrote:Not sure what you mean, Brian, but I'm pretty sure the SCC doesn't want anyone delving into their handling of Deep Creek.Oh...delve into it we're gonna...you can believe that. Since I have now been limited by the powers that be as to the number of posts I can make in a 24 hr period (when did that start?)...somebody else will have to haul the mail until I get back in. Good luck with Brian. It seems like somebody sent him in here like a rodeo clown as a distraction. |
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I take this very seriously (check into my efforts to work for access in the Carolinas and beyond). My point is Internet forums and random website quotes are really not going to address the underlying issues. It will take conversations in person, on the phone, etc. by people of good will willing to work on the problem. I think those are lining up now and hope that the conversations will lead things to the right outcomes. |
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Brian Payst wrote: Obviously what I meant was they didn't announce getting the money (which is pretty atypical, at the CCC we'll sure as heck let you know when someone gives us a grant, just try to avoid our spray), didn't issue the comment you are having issues with, etc. In other words, you're getting upset over words the SCC didn't say and which I seriously doubt are accurate given where they did come from.Maybe you've already grasped this and I'm just being dense--I often am--but isn't the fact that this behavior is atypical a smoking gun that all of this speculation about their intentions and how they knew their intentions would be perceived dead on? Trying to shrug all this off as a 'transparency' issue seems to me from a distance to be willfully delusional. The SCC is giving off a stink I can smell from Vermont. |
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I have been on the board of the SCC for a long, long time. I also served on the board of the AF for many years and worked with the AAC. I have read some of the comments and wanted to provide what information I can. The folks on the SCC board are all volunteers who do their best. Like all of the volunteers, sometimes I am more involved than other times. Like all the volunteers, I have made decisions and done things I might not do now. I don't know the answers to every issue that has been brought up. Tyler is an old friend and we have talked about some of the issues and I get it. We don't agree on every point but that is okay. I wish I had been more aware of some of the feelings you guys have about the SCC and maybe some things could have been addressed earlier and not festered. There has certainly been some issues that have fallen through the cracks - YB is an example and that is being positively worked on. Bernard Wolfe, fellow SCC board member and the person who put up the route that was unknowingly retro'ed by Chris Szeirzant some years ago [tilt a whirl], has gone to YB to see for himself and has reported that the sky is not falling at YB. But that should have been better managed and it wasn't. It will be now. |
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This: |
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Well Paul, I don't know what else to say to you, other than I guess everyone should stop putting in massive amounts of time and effort on a volunteer basis trying to save climbing areas since they're not doing it 100% to your satisfaction every day of their lives. |
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Here's a solution Will & Dave: introduce a motion at your next board meeting stating that bolted cracks will not be allowed at SCC owned/managed cliffs and that previously bolted crack routes will be chopped/ patched and returned to their natural state. Thus no grandfathering-in of bolted cracks. |