Hiring a guide considered "weak"?

I don't know if there is a stigma with experienced climbers hiring a guide?

In this day and age where time is limited and travel is relatively cheap and accessible, does it make sense to check pride and ego at the door and just pay the money to let someone guide you so you don't have to think or worry about the logistics? Instead of spending weeks or months planning and training for a big mountain, just focus on training? Instead of a 2 week trip, you can get away with a week?

Hire a guide when you are in a foreign land and don't know north from south or what 6c is in YDS?

Or on a rest day to go rafting/biking/?

Seems like guides provide a great service, but for some reason I can't bring myself to do it. And it's not even about the money. What are your thoughts?

What do you care what other people think?

Nothing like having a rope gun who knows the area and all the routes if that's what you're looking for. Also great if you are flying solo and don't feel like chancing it trying to find a good partner. Let the guide know exactly what your experience is and what you want to get out of the trip so he doesn't assume you are a beginner.

Sure, you can hire a guide if you want if the money is worth it to you. For me, it would be hard to pay someone to climb with me when I can find someone on here for free, but I am a cheap ass.

--No time wasted wandering around looking for routes, if you hire a local

--Always nice to have a competent partner

--Knows the best ______ (coffee, restaurant, beach, etc) nearby.

--Might learn a thing or two

--Choose carefully and s/he's probably pretty cool to hang with

--Good luck, man, hope it works out! (Where you headed, anyway?)

RC

In general, I feel a lot more satisfaction when I do things myself. So in most cases I'd rather no hire a guide. Same goes for doing a route with a much stronger partner who does most of the hard climbing and I contribute less. It just kind of feels better when I am an equal partner and contribute significantly to the planning and execution.

That said, sometimes, other considerations take over. Sometime the logistical considerations are overwhelming. I've used guides/porters/sherpas etc when climbing bigger objectives and left the logistical considerations to them. Local guides also know the conditions and weather better too. I've used a guide when traveling to places without a partner too. And I've hired a guide one a couple occasions just to learn new skills too (self-rescue etc..).

So yes, there is a little bit of a stigma about hiring a guide, but there are also a lot of very good reasons to use them.

I travel around the world a reasonable amount so I often have no one to climb with and have hired guides. I recommend it. I have learnt a lot this way and had some very good days out in the hills. Park the ego.

I have friend who climbs once a year for two weeks in the Alps. She thinks it works out cheaper than no guide on a cost-per-route basis, as they get so much done.

I don't know. I'm not the type to consider a guide, if I can't find a body to tie to the other end of my rope then I'll just boulder. But I like the idea of hiring someone and picking every route you do that day, instead of ending up with some turdbird you met on the internet that may or may not agree to the climbs you want to do.

Another question- you hire a guide hoping for a rope gun only to find they physically struggle on 5.9 and can't do 5.10. Do you ask for a discount?

T Roper wrote:Another question- you hire a guide hoping for a rope gun only to find they physically struggle on 5.9 and can't do 5.10. Do you ask for a discount?

I heard somewhere that you need permits to guide people, at least in national parks. So if they have those certifications, then they should be worth the salt.

I hire guides all the time. I don't feel any of the shame that you speak of. Im just looking for somebody safe, experienced and who's fun to hang out with for the day. I've hired a guide so I have a good belay while leading. I've almost hired a guide because I don't wanna lead.

Why can't you bring yourself to hire a guide?

Darin Berdinka wrote:What do you care what other people think?

This.

I've used guides for years. It's difficult to find partners that can climb weekdays, go on trips when you want and where you want. The guides will usually know the area so you don't waste time on the approaches and descents, and will lead (note: not all guides will let you lead).

I hired a guide one time and it was a great experience. It also saved/rejuvenated my climbing life. After moving from Alaska and away from my pool of 20 plus climbing friends I was ready to call it quits. Actually had most of my gear for sale on Craigslist, MP, Mountaineering Club of Alaska website, Facebook, etc. I moved to Wyoming - SE part of the state, high desert I'd call it and not many climbers there. I was ready to cash it in when my wife said i should "head up to the Black Hills, hire a guide, spend a day climbing again before you sell all your shit." So glad I did that. Spent the day with Daryl Stisser from Sylvan Rocks - climbed a couple of the Cathedral Spires and a sport route elsewhere in the park, but more importantly had a relaxed, fun day outside doing what I enjoy and talking with a fellow climber. Daryl convinced me to hang on to my gear for awhile, see what happens. Really glad I did that. Met a climber on MP after that who lives down in Boulder and we became good friends/climbing partners. I got to experience the Flatirons, Eldorado Canyon, Boulder Canyon, etc. I never would have got to experience all that nor would I have met my good friend Dara had I not hired a guide. I get that reluctance - its great to be self reliant, make your own decisions, but theres a whole lot of upsides to hiring a guide too. Why limit your experiences/opportunities based on ego or an old unwarranted stigma?

T Roper wrote:Another question- you hire a guide hoping for a rope gun only to find they physically struggle on 5.9 and can't do 5.10. Do you ask for a discount?

Should be a moot point if you made your goals for the day clear when you requested the guide. If you weren't asked up front, "What are your goals for the day?", then you need to be clear about what you need in terms of a guide.

Be sure to hire a guide qualified for the type of climbing you wish to do. In particular if you go with an AMGA guide and want to do multi-pitch climbing make sure you do not get a SPI certified guide because they are not allowed to guide multi-pitch without supervision. For multi-pitch you want an "Rock Guide" not a SPI guide or CWI.

You can look and the AMGA's website to see what terrian various guides are allowed to guide in (AMGA guide sign an agreement to not guide beyond their certification) and what certifications a particular guide has.

I have hired guides to do climbing when i was sent to places for work and couldn't find a partner online. It is totally worth getting to climb when you are not paying for a trip and just need a partner. I have also had guides tell me that I was the first person they ever let lead anything because they can tell if you know what you are doing or not.

here's my personal opinion for what it's worth:

I tend to agree with Csproul. I think a lot of the reluctance comes from the general self-reliance required in climbing. I'm personally not big on hiring guides, although I have done it on occasion. I think there are good reasons to hire a guide and good reasons not to.

Reasons to hire a guide:
learning as in taking some sort of class/clinic
letting them handle complex logistics (such as international destinations)
you're travelling solo (say for work) and can't find a partner

Reasons not to hire a guide
You want the guide to do everything and you are just along for the ride
If you want/like to lead, they often won't let you and if they do, you have to do a weird dance to prove yourself first
Cost - they are rather expensive
Sometimes I find their safety practices excessive and stifling. I'm all for safety but some of their practices can be way-overkill.

In the end, it's up to you. Do want you want. It's your money and time.

I recently hired a guide (first time in my long climbing career) to lead myself and my son up a route in the Moab area. We had never climbed there, didn't know how to get to the crag (and it was a bit of a hike)and the route has a reputation for being runout and difficult to protect (and is rated at the upper range of my abilities) and involved a few moves of aid, which I rarely do.

Pros: Guide was a good guy and had some great stories.
We hit the trail before sunrise and were first on the route.
I didn't have to carry as much gear.
Low stress.

Cons: Pricey.
Realized afterwards that I could have lead the climb & always feel more of a sense of accomplishment when I do it on my own.

Some thoughts on hiring a guide here:

http://larsonweb.com/blog/?p=923

I will say when i was in yosemite climbing I ran into a guide while eating and was able to get alot of good information for him. I was questioning whether i wanted to attempt a route but after talking to him we decided to go for it and had a great time.

Kai Larson wrote:Some thoughts on hiring a guide here: larsonweb.com/blog/?p=923

very good information. thanks for sharing.