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How Unsafe is This?

EthanC · · Bay Area, CA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 253

So while none of these a really an issue, just because it occured to me and I had all my gear out, I just wanted to look at one thing. If the ATC is loaded properly for a right handed belayer and placed on the harness backward, bringing the brake strand down and to the right would put the ATC in a weird orientation if it doesn't twist. I can imagine in this orientation the maximum braking strength is not as high. Whether you call that a "safety issue" is up to you, as I'm pretty confident this would more than hold a fall, but maybe not a truck.

ATC loaded correctly but placed on harness incorrectly.

Where my hand is the belay loop. Anyway, this is the most worst case I could think of.

DrRockso RRG · · Red River Gorge, KY · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 815

There is another technique where the gri-gri is upside-down, the one in the video is not it and I may have been wrong about saying it was the "Petzl recommended technique"

FourT6and2 ... · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 45
EthanC wrote:So while none of these a really an issue, just because it occured to me and I had all my gear out, I just wanted to look at one thing. If the ATC is loaded properly for a right handed belayer and placed on the harness backward, bringing the brake strand down and to the right would put the ATC in a weird orientation if it doesn't twist. I can imagine in this orientation the maximum braking strength is not as high. Whether you call that a "safety issue" is up to you, as I'm pretty confident this would more than hold a fall, but maybe not a truck. Where my hand is the belay loop. Anyway, this is the most worst case I could think of.
Yes, that's closer to what I'm talking about. While it may lock, I don't think an ATC, nor a GriGri, are intended to be used that way. And it didn't instill confidence in me to have my belayer basically tell me "not to worry about it."
june m · · elmore, vt · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 110

If you dont have confidence in your belayer it is time for a different belayer.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

that's basically the orientation used with the death mod when you rope solo with a grigri. i belay left handed and belayed for many years in this configuration. i think it actually helps activate the camming more easily as the rope is basically wrapped around the cam. ultimately i switched to having the sharp end come out the top because it kinks the rope less (when belaying left handed at least, when belaying right handed using the petzl method it is similar to the way i used to do it in terms of kinks).

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103
EthanC wrote:So while none of these a really an issue, just because it occured to me and I had all my gear out, I just wanted to look at one thing. If the ATC is loaded properly for a right handed belayer and placed on the harness backward, bringing the brake strand down and to the right would put the ATC in a weird orientation if it doesn't twist. I can imagine in this orientation the maximum braking strength is not as high. Whether you call that a "safety issue" is up to you, as I'm pretty confident this would more than hold a fall, but maybe not a truck. Where my hand is the belay loop. Anyway, this is the most worst case I could think of.
my guess is that this orientation would have better holding power than if the brake end wasn't wrapped over the lead end.
Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 21,711
june m wrote:If you dont have confidence in your belayer it is time for a different belayer.
Also seen where the lead climber had a confidence meltdown due to their own thing, and, nothing to do with the belay. The belayer can take undeserved abuse from a rattled lead climber. Time to get a new partner in that case.
DesertRat · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 196

In my experience, when the ATC is upside down, it seems to cause the carabiner to cross load while belaying. I think the mechanism, is the twist that it puts in the direction of feed.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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