New Petzl Express dogbones have apparent design flaw that resulted in failure

Perfect example why bolts should be used instead of studs.

Eric Chabot wrote:Bearbreeder, it depends on the glue in. I belayed a climber whose bolt-side biner came unclipped from a fat Rumney glue in that had not been countersunk. He was seriously injured. Newer Ti glueins probably don't have this issue.

Thanks for the comment eric

My meaning is that on a glue in the biner is unlikely to catch in the nut and protruding bolt as in the OPs photo, or get loaded with the nose stuck between the hanger and the nut

As ur story indicated a draw can still come off if yt unlucky enough, even if the spine is facing the proprr direction regardless of the bolt type ... Though IMO its less likely with a proper glue in

In fact DMM had a vid with various "failure" modes ... The one you are indicating is likely the one they show at the end ....

dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/c…

Jake Jones wrote:I guess we all missed the part where he said that's all there is to it. We all look like fools for continuing to comment.

Have i congragulated u on being made a mod jake? ... Yr a shinning example of what a mod should be .... Not a hint of bitterness at all and every post on topic

Ai ruuuuuv uuuu 2 <3

Dats awl dere iz 2 eeeet

;)

bearbreeder wrote: Thanks for the comment eric My meaning is that on a glue in the biner is unlikely to catch in the nut and protruding bolt as in the OPs photo, or get loaded with the nose stuck between the hanger and the nut As ur story indicated a draw can still come off if yt unlucky enough, even if the spine is facing the proprr direction regardless of the bolt type ... Though IMO its less likely with a proper glue in In fact DMM had a vid with various "failure" modes ... The one you are indicating is likely the one they show at the end .... dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/c… Have i congragulated u on being made a mod jake? ... Yr a shinning example of what a mod should be .... Not a hint of bitterness at all and every post on topic Ai ruuuuuv uuuu 2 <3 Dats awl dere iz 2 eeeet ;)

That video was a little freaky at about 4:15.

I also feel better about glue-ins now..

Aww man, I really liked how tight the express dogbone is, I only have 1 in the 25cm length and I just replaced all my 12cm dogbones with bd 18cm dynex dogbones to cut down rope drag, tired of having only a few longer draws and having to choose the right one before clipping. I noticed on steep climbs I hang the draw and sometimes it swings around quite a bit because of how supple the longer loop of fabric is. When I go to clip the rope I'm like "grr stop moving around draw, what's a matter rope are you too good for your home?" My petzl spirit doesn't do this as badly (still swings just not as much). But now I know there is a down side! Well at least I can be happy with my purchase lol.

This is why I hate the new Petzl Express design. The Petzl Express slings have been my favorite for years. They had been unchanged since the 90's and were ideal. Then when the latest version came out a couple of years ago (the light grey ones..as pictured) they were made MUCH more stiff and included tighter stitching on the top and full sticking down the sides of the longer versions. These changes made even the long draws stiff as boards and effectively eliminates the benefit of using a longer draw.

People like these stiff bones because they are ever so slightly easier to clip, but the trade off is safety as illustrated above. It also reduces the ability of the longer draws to reduce rope-drag (since they don't bend/flex).

BD's and DMM's Vari-Width bones are the same. BD's are actually even stiffer!
The stiffer the draw and the more trapped the upper biner is...the more likely this issue can occur.

It seems there is not a bone out there anymore that is both "grab-able" (i.e. thick and not dynema) and flexible.

i completely agree. i think the new petzl draws totally suck.

Your clipping wrong, the spine should be the other way round.

This is nothing. Just wait till you guys get wind of the ANGE draw design flaw!

supertopo.com/climbers-foru…

Josh Janes wrote:This is nothing. Just wait till you guys get wind of the ANGE draw design flaw! supertopo.com/climbers-foru…

Reminds me of a saying that a guy I once worked with used: "It could have been worse; it could have happened to me!"