Black Flies in the northeast

I know we all want a magic bullet and/or try to make plans based on current observations with regards to black flies, but this generally isn't a realistic practice. There are many factors that play into whether or not flies are bad in one area, or not at another. And within a day's time this can change (especially if there's a sudden cold night or wind).

Just prepare for them, and if they're not there - great! But you have to expect them anywhere outside of the cities in the northeast starting May through sometime July. That's just how it is and all the inquiring and wishful thinking won't change this.

[/rant]

Any pro tips for someone who just moved to the north east? Is covering up the only option?

Ben's 100. 99.99% DEET. the best you can get.

Andrewww wrote:Ben's 100. 99.99% DEET. the best you can get.

that shit melts nylon. Not so awesome for rope climbing.

I used to wear a headnet and gloves while belaying. It sucked. Hence my complete avoidance of new england outside of the month of Rocktober.

Get the full bug jacket (they are cheap) and wear a billed hat underneath to keep the netting off your face. They do suck (hard to breath, surprisingly hot, a little hard to see through and amusing when you forget you have it on and go for a smoke or bite from your sandwich), but they beat getting eaten alive and you can still do easier climbs, exploring or route cleaning etc. With them you don't have to poison yourself as much with the DEET. Light colored clothes are better than dark. The worst is usually between Mother's and Father's days.

Black flies have given me some rough days in NH and Maine - wondering if they are generally as big of an issue in the gunks?

With the people I climb with rule of thumb has been Gunks untill the forth.

I use deet, mostly on my arms and feet (not on the rope/harness/slings). It can be washed off your hands if you rub it on, and probably should anyway as it leaves your fingers slick. Even a dirt shower can get most of it from your hands. It is true it can damage fabrics after prolonged exposure, but it's easy to limit that exposure. [only prolonged, concentrated deet on fabrics will damage them]

Windy days are my best friend, and sometimes I'll pick higher climbs or multipitch if I know the bugs might be bad and the higher up on a cliff usually there's more breeze to keep their numbers down. That said, I'll still bring a small bottle of deet on the climb or apply it ahead of time for those moments the wind might die down.

Don't forget around the ankles!

Will carry a headnet but hate wearing them.

Not sure the color of the clothing really matters, the black flies seem more interested in my skin than fashion.

MorganH wrote: that shit melts nylon. Not so awesome for rope climbing.

I'm having trouble finding the original doc now, but Sterling Ropes did tests on Nylon and Dyneema and found that DEET did not affect the strength at all. In fact, the lower % deet sprays are potentially more harmful, as they can contain harmful solvents in addition to deet.

Mike Marmar wrote: I'm having trouble finding the original doc now, but Sterling Ropes did tests on Nylon and Dyneema and found that DEET did not affect the strength at all. In fact, the lower % deet sprays are potentially more harmful, as they can contain harmful solvents in addition to deet.

We have slings and ropes hitting 7 years of age that are still in great shape, despite us using deet 2 months of the climbing season. It's pseudo science - people hear something that's true in one situation, and apply it universally to all situations. Deet does damage many synthetic fabrics, but only if you really really try. lol For 99% of climbing applications, deet is fine.

I also remember that Sterling test. This should probably be tracked down as the "deet kills kittens" shit comes up every black fly season.

For now the best I could find is this:

rockandice.com/gear-guide-t…

"Q: I spilled RV antifreeze on my rope, is it ruined?

A: The active ingredient in RV antifreeze is food-grade propylene glycol, a non-toxic, oily liquid with a wide range of applications from food additive to personal lubricant. Antifreeze also has water, and might contain ethyl or “grain” alcohol.

According to the Honeywell Corporation, once a large supplier of the nylon 6 used in ropes, nylon is not greatly affected by motor oil, mineral oil, salt water, Freon, gasoline, kerosene, benzene, chloroform, paints, pine oils or insect repellents with DEET. Bleach and sulfuric (car battery) acid are the big nylon killers. RV antifreeze wasn’t tested, but to paraphrase Scott Newell of BlueWater ropes, anything you can put on your skin shouldn’t damage a climbing rope."

Yea, DEET does not affect climbing ropes.

Everyone has their own remedy. Nothing is entirely effective. In my experience cool, windy spots and bug nets are good bets but if you need insect repellent try 3M's Ultrathon. This is what the US military uses so its actually been tested. It's 34% deet, long lasting, and pretty effective in my experience. It stops them from landing on you and biting but won't stop them swarming in bad conditions. Because of the high amount of deet you should make sure to wash it off at night. Repellents with lower amounts of deet are not as effective and require constant reapplication. The 99% deet is way overkill and makes your lips tingle.

The only good news about blackflies is that are pretty localized (i.e. you can often find bug free spots) and aren't really a problem at night.

Jim

Hmm makes your lips tingle. I was told by an army guy that it is nerve gas. I use an organic product called bygone bugz. I do have to reaply occasionally . I am very allergic to black fly bites, and rarely get any unless I miss a spot ie up the pant legs.

june m wrote:Hmm makes your lips tingle. I was told by an army guy that it is nerve gas.

That's incorrect. Apparently it has been shown to have similar effects as nerve gas in some insects, as well as animal cells in vitro. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/…

The threat from insect-borne diseases (west nile, lyme, rocky mountain fever, etc) is vastly greater than the possible toxicity of deet. So, it makes sense to me to use the stuff, since it seems to be far more effective than anything else, except maybe permethrin.

The organic sprays work for about 3 minutes for me if the flies are at all heavy. I was out scrubbing boulders at Rumney once though when the sun was going down and they had gotten bad. I had forgotten my DEET and net so I pulled some celandine plants and draped them over my head. It looked a little weird but was surprisingly effective. If I had a hat it probably would have kept it in place better. It worked better than Citronella when I wasn't moving much.

The best options I used after 4 summers of trail crew in the White Mountains:
1) Rub a bit of diesel fuel on the underside of the brim of your hat - keeps the bugs off your face.
2) Take your shirt off. It's quiet counter-intuitive, but the more area you give them, the more they stay off your face. I don't mind getting bit (I obviously don't like it, but it's summer in the northeast), it's getting into my eyes / ears / nose / mouth that makes me insane
3) Cigar smoke - go with dirt cheap Backwoods, found in any convenience store.
4) This is by far the mankiest, but if you have to be somewhere where the black flies are particularly vicious, dip spit (the spit from chewing tobacco) rubbed on the skin virtually guarantees you being completely bug free. Like I said, pretty manky, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Things to avoid:
1) Blowing off lots of CO2. It's a chemoattractant (only animals produce CO2 in large amounts). Taking an extra couple minutes to walk to the crag so that you're not sweating and huffing & puffing will make a difference
2) Perfumes / scents. AXE might not bring the ladies, but it sure as hell brings the bugs.

Or you could just go with my wife's plan, which is to grab several bats, tie a string around their ankle with a 2' leash, and have your own personal bug killers flying around your head. She's trying to work out a few kinks, I'm sure it'll be up on Kickstarter soon...

Louis Eubank wrote: dip spit (the spit from chewing tobacco) rubbed on the skin

that is so over the top. I agree with the cigar smoke one though. Surprised no one has said the old, "mind over matter" one.

Light weight long sleave cotton dress shirt. long pants, bug net for belaying. I take it off to climb but it goes back on the moment I stop moveing. lots of deet especialy on the ankles. I actually like the spray stuff better because the concentrated 99% deet stuff is so slippery when you rub it on it seems hard to get your hands clean enough to not feel slippery climbing... Climb with a stupid friend who wears shorts and a tank top ;) let him take one for the team:)

Louis Eubank wrote:The best options I used after 4 summers of trail crew in the White Mountains: 1) Rub a bit of diesel fuel on the underside of the brim of your hat - keeps the bugs off your face. 2) Take your shirt off. It's quiet counter-intuitive, but the more area you give them, the more they stay off your face. I don't mind getting bit (I obviously don't like it, but it's summer in the northeast), it's getting into my eyes / ears / nose / mouth that makes me insane 3) Cigar smoke - go with dirt cheap Backwoods, found in any convenience store. 4) This is by far the mankiest, but if you have to be somewhere where the black flies are particularly vicious, dip spit (the spit from chewing tobacco) rubbed on the skin virtually guarantees you being completely bug free. Like I said, pretty manky, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Things to avoid: 1) Blowing off lots of CO2. It's a chemoattractant (only animals produce CO2 in large amounts). Taking an extra couple minutes to walk to the crag so that you're not sweating and huffing & puffing will make a difference 2) Perfumes / scents. AXE might not bring the ladies, but it sure as hell brings the bugs. Or you could just go with my wife's plan, which is to grab several bats, tie a string around their ankle with a 2' leash, and have your own personal bug killers flying around your head. She's trying to work out a few kinks, I'm sure it'll be up on Kickstarter soon...

When it is this bad it is time to find something else to do.

Dumb question about the cigar smoke. Do you guys just light it and set it up on the ground between rocks like a tikki torch? lol.

Off deep woods has worked for me in the past. Have to reapply it every couple hours but small can in the bag will last a couple trips easy for two people.

nah you just smoke it