Tallulah Gorge Peregrines
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How did we go from preserve and protect, to buy and bolt? Money from the masses. We are our own worse enemy! |
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I would quibble with the term "we" as it pertains to Chattanooga climbing, Shannon; those sponsoring the wholesale bolting here are ultimately the enemy of longterm climbing access, history and environmental preservation. And the Chattanooga cancer is spreading. How long will land managers and land owners--here and elsewhere--tolerate the depredations of sport climbers: installed bolts, chains, perma-draws, graffiti, trash and a swinish sense of entitlement? Who knows, but I would suggest picking an area and defending it from bolters. And notifying the sponsors of access organizations, like the SCC, that consistently violate their charters. That will slow the cancer's spread at least. |
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If you guys are just going to beat around bush and continue making vague allusions, then this thread has really just devolved to unproductive chest thumping. |
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In an era dominated by social media and a rapid spread of information via the internet, why not go ahead and get the ball rolling on exposing these issues? Things seem pretty black and white to me. The only issue is the vast majority of climbers support what is going on. The old guard are only getting older and spread thinner. Think about how many local climbers get their start at places like sandrock and foster falls. Without being taught otherwise, they will think that is the norm and is an ok practice. Eventually the classics at T wall will be retro bolted. It's not a matter of if but when. Without people actually fighting against it, the future is pretty obvious. Just think about the percentage of new climbers Johnny Arms 'mentors' compared to anyone else. |
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Hey all- I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, but I and all of my climbing partners typically share information on all bird nests near cliffs, so that we can avoid those routes until the birds fledge. Shit, I had a friend wait a week to try his project because some |
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JohnWesely wrote:If you guys are just going to beat around bush and continue making vague allusions, then this thread has really just devolved to unproductive chest thumping.If you investigate, I believe you'll find that there has already been a very succinct and direct address presented to the SCC and it has fallen on deaf ears. There is a concerned contingent that has effectively thrown their hands up about the state of things in Chatt and with the SCC. Like Todd Wells indicates, it's left to picking a crag and defending it. I hope someone guards the gate at the TWall....it's already showing signs of decay. I've been pretty clear about the state of things in AL in this thread, but let's take score.... Dead and dying: Sandrock, Yellow Bluff. In serious threat: Little River Canyon and, believe it or not, Yellow Creek... Currently "defended": Jamestown, Steele. And it's fairly evident the state of things in GA, given the topic and subsequent shutting down of Tallulah. I'll let someone else address Cahttanooga in depth...as I have my hands full in AL and don't have all the details. However, if you piece together some of the hints herein, you'd find.... Rampant, SCC funded bolting and permadraw campaigns emanating from Chatt and rendered at places such as Castle Rock, Deep Creek, TWall, Little River Canyon.... Wanton and illegal trespass and bolting of Bee Rock, the Dihedrals, and other private property at the hands of the SCCs "officers", "reps", etc. A diversion from the SCC's mission and directives is not only clear, but is being driven by those at the helm with total abandon. No one is hinting or beating around the bush, as far as I can see. |
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I was very actively involved in the SCC for about 13 years, and was a board member for 2ish years before I stepped down. About 50% of the reason was having a kid and just needing more time. The other 50% was that politics made me miserable. Note that I am not condemning the SCC for being a political organization. Every access org, by their definition, must be political. |
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Will... |
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Any org with a crack bolting President, that uses photos of bolted cracks in their promotional material, has zero credibility with me...no matter what they've done. |
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Sad to see the state of affairs in the SE take a trip down this road. This may have been covered, but what rights does the SCC have to bolt? Is this a personal decision on their part or have they been granted this right by another organizations, i.e. state parks, landowners, etc? |
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DavisMeschke wrote:Sad to see the state of affairs in the SE take a trip down this road. This may have been covered, but what rights does the SCC have to bolt? Is this a personal decision on their part or have they been granted this right by another organizations, i.e. state parks, landowners, etc?Davis... It depends. Ultimately, it is all of our responsibility. The SCC could promote much better/sustainable practices, but.... You see that promotional flyer? That ain't right. Take Prentice Cooper... TWall, parts of Suck Creek, etc. As I understand it, one must seek the approval of the State Management, there and at other places like Lost Wall, before fixed anchors are installed. At Tallulah, as an example, most of recent cleanup has been done by Stephen F with approval by the Park Staff as he is known to them and comes across as highly professional and knowledgeable. Somewhere like Whitesides, it's really up to the user group (as you see in posts above) to deal. Sadly, at places like Yellow Bluff, in near proximity to J.A.-evangelized gym-climbers and SCC-supported ethics...... Where there is a "community" of about five dudes with drills... Retro bolts, grid bolting, defamation of natural/historical artifacts, and poor user-code are resulting in Sandrock-like abuses. On the contrary, Steele, Jamestown, Tallulah (when open), and most of the NC crags demonstrate decent, sparing, sustainable tactics while preserving nature and the history of the area. As a member of the SGHAAC, you have full/easy access to these spots and should visit with someone who can show you the way...Ol' Stegg, as an example. Or come to Alabama and we'll do some cleanup. |
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BHMBen wrote: If you investigate, I believe you'll find that there has already been a very succinct and direct address presented to the SCC and it has fallen on deaf ears.If that isn't vague... You could have used that same space to educate us all on exactly what you are talking about. Right now, all I know is at some point in time, someone adressed the scc on something. BHMBen wrote: Dead and dying: Sandrock, Yellow Bluff. In serious threat: Little River Canyon and, believe it or not, Yellow Creek... Currently "defended": Jamestown, Steele.I know for a fact that sandrock has been the way it is for at least a decade, and it didn't exactly seem like a new development at the time. Even with all the guidebook attention, I don't see hordes at Little River Canyon. I spent two weeks climbing there last year in perfect conditons and didn't see another party the entire time. BHMBen wrote: However, if you piece together some of the hints herein, you'd find.... Rampant, SCC funded bolting and permadraw campaigns emanating from Chatt and rendered at places such as Castle Rock, Deep Creek, TWall, Little River Canyon....Not really interested in playing Sherlock Holmes here. Are routes actually being retroed here, or are these new routes? I am not trying to be antagonizing here, but if want to gain any traction, it would be nice to know exactly what you are talking about. |
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NO. 1 |
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All right Ben. I like a soapbox rant as much as the next guy but you are factually incorrect on many of the things you are posting. BHMBen wrote:Sadly, at places like Yellow Bluff, in near proximity to J.A.-evangelized gym-climbers and SCC-supported ethics......The developers of Yellow Bluff, myself included, sadly are not the evangelized gym climbers you think they are. Honestly, it's pretty funny to consider the "thing" we have in Huntsville a climbing gym at all. I'll not get into climbing experience, mine or any other developer, to avoid the aforementioned chest thumping, but suffice to say there is a large amount of experience in the group. BHMBen wrote:Where there is a "community" of about five dudes with drills...Realistically, there is only 1 drill. The same one that has been used to replace old rusty 1/4" hardware on the Whiteside headwall, quite a feat for some gym climbers. BHMBen wrote:Retro bolts, grid bolting, defamation of natural/historical artifacts, and poor user-code are resulting in Sandrock-like abuses.To my knowledge, none of the routes I or any other local put up were retro bolts. If this is not the case, I welcome a discussion with any prior FA regarding the route. No one has reached out to me or any other developer. Obvious gear lines were left untouched but anchors were installed as topping out is trespassing. Old crap hardware was replaced one-for-one. Also, the SCC provided no funding or bolts to developers. People came out of pocket to equip all of the routes and anchors, gear lines included. Regarding the "defamation" (you need to look this word up) of natural/historical artifacts, I assume you are talking about Painted Bluff. Realize that none of the local "community" put these routes up. On the contrary, we worked with TVA to close off certain routes and preserve these artifacts. We organized a clean up, hauled 2 boat loads of climber generated trash, and removed graffiti (painted route names) from the crag in accordance with newly established TVA policies. BHMBen wrote:On the contrary, Steele, Jamestown, Tallulah (when open), and most of the NC crags demonstrate decent, sparing, sustainable tactics while preserving nature and the history of the area.Recognize also the the same people who have been the major developers at YB have served as property managers for some of the areas listed above, preserving them for future generations. Sam |
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Ben, live in the Red River Gorge now. Will be back down your way in December though. I will leave the drill at home ;) |
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mountainproject.com/v/10878…
By sam england Mar 27, 2014 This route is called Tilt-a-whirl and is a retrobolted gear line from back in the day. 5.11 Just sayin... |
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Paul Barnes: |
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I did not assert any facts about your beloved crag that you claim to have protected so well against retros. Sam did that for me...well over a year ago it seems. |
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Paul, |
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Paul, |