Worst Belay Ever
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Alexey, you passed today's reading quiz! |
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Nathan Self wrote:When I see random belayers not watching their climber, they're usually just not belaying. Sure, when competent belayers look away--or the route necessitates--they belay soley by feel. Not everyone does.the best way to get belaying by feel down pat is multi ... especially multi at night grub street complex 5.10 4p (5.9 slab finish), malamute, squamish there tons of incompetent belayers who looks at yr azz ... and tons of competent ones who dont stare at it all day constant azz staring isnt a prerequisite for competence ;) |
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csproul wrote:Well, I guess I'll agree with the first part of this statement. A competent belayer can manage just fine without seeing you. We'll just disagree on the second. I don't care if I'm a few clips up, if I repeatedly look down at my belayer and he/she is staring at their feet and "occasionally" glancing up at me, they won't be my climbing partner for very long.i glance away from my climber all the time ... often when im shaking the rope (which i constantly do) even with the rope flaked out im not saying you NEVER have to look at your climber ... especially at the first few bolts or when the belay needs to be very active ... but one doesnt ALWAYS have to stare at their climber ... especially on trad where some folks take eons to place a few pieces at stances i would never belay a climber who ALWAYS insisted i stare at their azz all the time ... i understand on parts which may require it ... but not every single darn second ;) |
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I guess that's where we differ. I default to watching when safe and appropriate and glance away as needed to deal with things like kinked ropes. You, apparently think it's just fine if the belayer stares straight ahead or at the ground and glances up at you occasionally, once you're a few bolts up, of course. |
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csproul wrote:I guess that's where we differ. I default to watching when safe and appropriate and glance away as needed to deal with things like kinked ropes. You, apparently think it's just fine if the belayer stares straight ahead or at the ground and glances up at you occasionally, once you're a few bolts up, of course.of course ... because on many climbs i wouldnt be "safe" if i couldnt belay by feel ... partner on a very popular 10a overhang here ... 25m ... no visual contact over the bulge in fact around here you would be a crap belayer if you couldnt be trusted to belay safely by feel ;) |
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We get it. You have lots of climbs where your belayer can't see you. I'm not talking about those. Neither is anyone else here. I'm talking about climbs where your belay can see you just fine and it is safe to do so. There are literally thousands if these in the US alone. Very common. You seem to think that in these situations a "competent" belayer can look wherever they want and belay you by feel. I, OTOH, believe that part being a competent belayer in that situation includes watching the climber most of the time. Even a competent belayer who can belay by feel will do a better job when they use their eyes. You, of course, are free to feel otherwise and allow people to belay you otherwise. |
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csproul wrote:We get it. You have lots of climbs where your belayer can't see you. I'm not talking about those. Neither is anyone else here. I'm talking about climbs where your belay can see you just fine and it is safe to do so. There are literally thousands if these in the US alone. Very common. You seem to think that in these situations a "competent" belayer can look wherever they want and belay you by feel. I, OTOH, believe that part being a competent belayer in that situation includes watching the climber most of the time. Even a competent belayer who can belay by feel will do a better job when they use their eyes. You, of course, are free to feel otherwise and allow people to belay you otherwise.well simply have to disagree then ... i dont feel theres any real benefit to ALWAYS keeping your eyes glued on yr belayerz azz except in the certain situations i listed, especially once they are higher up with good gear/bolts in anyones the point is that belaying by feel is NOT UNSAFE generally if you are a competent belayer if it was, we would never do climbs that dont have perfect LOS ... in in fact we shouldnt if we consider a belayer not competent if we dont trust them enough to belay by feel thats all there is to it anyways ive used up my entire post limit for the day on this thread !!! time to pack up for some laaazy climbing and bear breeding tmr ... have fun ;) |
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climbing friend, |
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csproul wrote:We get it. You have lots of climbs where your belayer can't see you. I'm not talking about those. Neither is anyone else here. I'm talking about climbs where your belay can see you just fine and it is safe to do so. There are literally thousands if these in the US alone. Very common. You seem to think that in these situations a "competent" belayer can look wherever they want and belay you by feel. I, OTOH, believe that part being a competent belayer in that situation includes watching the climber most of the time. Even a competent belayer who can belay by feel will do a better job when they use their eyes. You, of course, are free to feel otherwise and allow people to belay you otherwise.Agreed and agreed. The "I'm such a good belayer, I don't have to watch my climber" argument doesn't hold water with me. My belayer will watch me, as long as he can (without stepping away from the wall). And so it is, a Mexican standoff (is that politically correct?) |
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I think you distracted her from her stellar technique. |
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Nope, there is always more drivel, here is some for you. |
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csproul wrote:Is that really so hard to agree with or do you just like arguing for arguments sake?I think you pretty much summed him up right there. But keep poking him though, I'm enjoying the slideshow from Squamish. Leading in the sun, leading at night... maybe if you poke him enough he will post a picture leading in the nude, that's definitely a situation where I wouldn't want to look up! |
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aikibujin wrote: I think you pretty much summed him up right there. But keep poking him though, I'm enjoying the slideshow from Squamish. Leading in the sun, leading at night... maybe if you poke him enough he will post a picture leading in the nude, that's definitely a situation where I wouldn't want to look up!unless she's a "hawtie". and yes, please carry on, your argument is hilarious to read |
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J Q wrote: To give a master belay you should use all your senses, and not just your eyes!How do I use my senses of smell and taste to be a master belayer? |