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Worst Belay Ever

Nathan Self · · Louisiana · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 90

Alexey, you passed today's reading quiz!

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Nathan Self wrote:When I see random belayers not watching their climber, they're usually just not belaying. Sure, when competent belayers look away--or the route necessitates--they belay soley by feel. Not everyone does.
the best way to get belaying by feel down pat is multi ... especially multi at night

grub street complex 5.10 4p (5.9 slab finish), malamute, squamish

there tons of incompetent belayers who looks at yr azz ... and tons of competent ones who dont stare at it all day

constant azz staring isnt a prerequisite for competence

;)
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
csproul wrote:Well, I guess I'll agree with the first part of this statement. A competent belayer can manage just fine without seeing you. We'll just disagree on the second. I don't care if I'm a few clips up, if I repeatedly look down at my belayer and he/she is staring at their feet and "occasionally" glancing up at me, they won't be my climbing partner for very long.
i glance away from my climber all the time ... often when im shaking the rope (which i constantly do) even with the rope flaked out

im not saying you NEVER have to look at your climber ... especially at the first few bolts or when the belay needs to be very active ...

but one doesnt ALWAYS have to stare at their climber ... especially on trad where some folks take eons to place a few pieces at stances

i would never belay a climber who ALWAYS insisted i stare at their azz all the time ... i understand on parts which may require it ... but not every single darn second

;)
csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

I guess that's where we differ. I default to watching when safe and appropriate and glance away as needed to deal with things like kinked ropes. You, apparently think it's just fine if the belayer stares straight ahead or at the ground and glances up at you occasionally, once you're a few bolts up, of course.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
csproul wrote:I guess that's where we differ. I default to watching when safe and appropriate and glance away as needed to deal with things like kinked ropes. You, apparently think it's just fine if the belayer stares straight ahead or at the ground and glances up at you occasionally, once you're a few bolts up, of course.
of course ... because on many climbs i wouldnt be "safe" if i couldnt belay by feel ...

partner on a very popular 10a overhang here ... 25m ... no visual contact over the bulge



in fact around here you would be a crap belayer if you couldnt be trusted to belay safely by feel

;)
csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

We get it. You have lots of climbs where your belayer can't see you. I'm not talking about those. Neither is anyone else here. I'm talking about climbs where your belay can see you just fine and it is safe to do so. There are literally thousands if these in the US alone. Very common. You seem to think that in these situations a "competent" belayer can look wherever they want and belay you by feel. I, OTOH, believe that part being a competent belayer in that situation includes watching the climber most of the time. Even a competent belayer who can belay by feel will do a better job when they use their eyes. You, of course, are free to feel otherwise and allow people to belay you otherwise.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
csproul wrote:We get it. You have lots of climbs where your belayer can't see you. I'm not talking about those. Neither is anyone else here. I'm talking about climbs where your belay can see you just fine and it is safe to do so. There are literally thousands if these in the US alone. Very common. You seem to think that in these situations a "competent" belayer can look wherever they want and belay you by feel. I, OTOH, believe that part being a competent belayer in that situation includes watching the climber most of the time. Even a competent belayer who can belay by feel will do a better job when they use their eyes. You, of course, are free to feel otherwise and allow people to belay you otherwise.
well simply have to disagree then ... i dont feel theres any real benefit to ALWAYS keeping your eyes glued on yr belayerz azz except in the certain situations i listed, especially once they are higher up with good gear/bolts in

anyones the point is that belaying by feel is NOT UNSAFE generally if you are a competent belayer

if it was, we would never do climbs that dont have perfect LOS ... in in fact we shouldnt if we consider a belayer not competent if we dont trust them enough to belay by feel

thats all there is to it

anyways ive used up my entire post limit for the day on this thread !!!

time to pack up for some laaazy climbing and bear breeding tmr ... have fun

;)
Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

climbing friend,

you must keep your eyes glued to my ass at all times in order to insure you may hop at the proper moment for soft catch if I fall and am not to complete my excellent, bold flash.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
csproul wrote:We get it. You have lots of climbs where your belayer can't see you. I'm not talking about those. Neither is anyone else here. I'm talking about climbs where your belay can see you just fine and it is safe to do so. There are literally thousands if these in the US alone. Very common. You seem to think that in these situations a "competent" belayer can look wherever they want and belay you by feel. I, OTOH, believe that part being a competent belayer in that situation includes watching the climber most of the time. Even a competent belayer who can belay by feel will do a better job when they use their eyes. You, of course, are free to feel otherwise and allow people to belay you otherwise.
Agreed and agreed. The "I'm such a good belayer, I don't have to watch my climber" argument doesn't hold water with me. My belayer will watch me, as long as he can (without stepping away from the wall).

And so it is, a Mexican standoff (is that politically correct?)
H BL · · Colorado · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 95

I think you distracted her from her stellar technique.

Seems like this is becoming all too common or is it that people are writing about it more? I've seen some craziness over the years, but as climbing continues to grow it seems scenes like this will become all the more common IMHO.

Many many moons ago when I was working at a climbing gym back home, someone (totally newbie) whom I had taught only too tie in and belay showed up at the Gunks a few weeks thereafter with a full rack of shiny new gear. Craziness! I spent a few years following an experienced climbing before I got on lead.

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50

Nope, there is always more drivel, here is some for you.

I would rather a blind man belay me perfectly than a man with 20/20 vision belay me poorly.

I climb 100 days a year, probably a lot more, with at least half outside. The man who breads with bears is just breaking you fools down with what a real belay looks like.

To give a master belay you should use all your senses, and not just your eyes!

You should practice this until you can do it.

I will bet you can belay better with your eyes afterwards, or not at all, because you are a master!

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 300
csproul wrote:Is that really so hard to agree with or do you just like arguing for arguments sake?
I think you pretty much summed him up right there. But keep poking him though, I'm enjoying the slideshow from Squamish. Leading in the sun, leading at night... maybe if you poke him enough he will post a picture leading in the nude, that's definitely a situation where I wouldn't want to look up!
eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525
aikibujin wrote: I think you pretty much summed him up right there. But keep poking him though, I'm enjoying the slideshow from Squamish. Leading in the sun, leading at night... maybe if you poke him enough he will post a picture leading in the nude, that's definitely a situation where I wouldn't want to look up!
unless she's a "hawtie". and yes, please carry on, your argument is hilarious to read
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
J Q wrote: To give a master belay you should use all your senses, and not just your eyes!
How do I use my senses of smell and taste to be a master belayer?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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