Ask someone to be my trad mentor??

So, I just completed the multi-week rock climbing course. We learned how to build anchors for top rope, take down fixed anchors, tie many, many knots, and how to ascend and rappel. Now, we're going out on the weekends with our classmates and instructors for semi-organized climbing weekends.

The idea is that we learn to be a second in trad climbing and find a trad mentor... There's no formalized mechanism to match mentors with prospective apprentices and I'm not sure how to go about finding a mentor.

This weekend, we're heading to the Gunks and we'll spend day 1 doing multipitch trad climbs with a mentor. Cool. What we do on day 2 is up to us, but the idea for this weekend is that we'll find a trad mentor.

How does one go about, without being a weirdo, asking someone to be a trad mentor? What is involved in the mentor/student relationship (climbing together, I presume)?

I've had formal mentors in my professional and personal life, but there's always been an understanding prior to establishing the mentor/student relationship that both parties were interested.

Lastly, my gf is my climbing partner, but she and I are equally new. We always climb together. Presumably, we should seek out a different mentor... I dunno maybe that's too personal

How do I do this?

I have met and taken out tons of people i met at a gym. I also have been out climbing with people I have met online. (although if you are inexperienced you have a higher chance of not knowing when the person is doing something unsafe) I would try to ask around at the gym and see if someone can hook you up with a person that knows what they are doing.

I personally am used to leading 95% of the time outside (not really always by choice) but i normally just want someone to climb with. I live near a military base though so most of the people I have taught how to trade climb end up moving away so I have to keep starting over.

Sounds like you're moving along pretty well. I started by just going to local crags and meeting new people. I suspect your circle will grow pretty quickly. It seems like there's always nice people around. In my experience folks will share their ropes with you and most are willing to form new partnerships.

...So you're headed to the Gunks, which puts you in my corner of the country. Where are you from?

What we do on day 2 is up to us, but the idea for this weekend is that we'll find a trad mentor.

they take you up a 5.6 climb with an instructor day 1 and then just drop you at the gunks and expect you to find a random person to climb with?

i'd try to set something up on-line so you have someone to climb with on the second day. post in the forums looking for a partner for easy trad at the gunks and say what experience you have if any.

or just go find some 5.3 routes and free solo, i mean, teach yourself how to trad climb. from your list you don't know how to place gear or build gear anchors, so that's kind of a bad idea.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you just took the Boston AMC Rock program. If so...smart call! I took it a few years ago and found it really expanded my circle of climbing friends.

In your search for a trad mentor, don't forget that you just met lots of other new folks in the program who are itching to climb outdoors. Climbing with them, even if it's just sport, can help you meet their experienced trad-leading friends. It is a lot easier to ask someone to teach you trad after they've gotten to know you a bit at the crag and gym.

As for this weekend at the Gunks, are you sure you're really on your own for day 2? I remember being matched up with leaders for both days when I took the program in the past. If you're really on your own for day 2, ask the event organizers for suggested partners when you're hanging around camp on day 1.

I was in your shoes a few years ago, but I never took a rock climbing course. I intially learned how to climb in the gym, bouldering then sport climbing. I was sport climbing for a few years, so I knew basic sport climbing anchors and leading, but nothing about gear placement and traditional climbing.

I found a mentor on here via "Partners" link that was willing to take a new trad climber up a multi-pitch. What I offered on the table was a very safe belay, strenght in following (I was sport climbing 5.11+), and gas money. Everyone loves gas money or getting bought dinner/lunch. What helped a lot was also my flexible schedule. I've now gotten enough experience and did the same for the community by taking out new people that have asked me in hopes they will eventually do the same. Having lunch paid for and them driving helped too.

Brian K. wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you just took the Boston AMC Rock program. If so...smart call! I took it a few years ago and found it really expanded my circle of climbing friends. In your search for a trad mentor, don't forget that you just met lots of other new folks in the program who are itching to climb outdoors. Climbing with them, even if it's just sport, can help you meet their experienced trad-leading friends. It is a lot easier to ask someone to teach you trad after they've gotten to know you a bit at the crag and gym. As for this weekend at the Gunks, are you sure you're really on your own for day 2? I remember being matched up with leaders for both days when I took the program in the past. If you're really on your own for day 2, ask the event organizers for suggested partners when you're hanging around camp on day 1.

Yes it was the Boston AMC Rock program. It has been an awesome experience thus far. I suppose it's possible that I'm wrong about day 2, but that is how it was described at Crow Hill last weekend...

That's true about meeting people. I think it will all be less painful than I'm anticipating, but I'm a control freak and a worrier...

I'll follow your suggestion about day 2. Hopefully the weather clears up!

Jan Tarculas wrote:I was in your shoes a few years ago, but I never took a rock climbing course. I intially learned how to climb in the gym, bouldering then sport climbing. I was sport climbing for a few years, so I knew basic sport climbing anchors and leading, but nothing about gear placement and traditional climbing. I found a mentor on here via "Partners" link that was willing to take a new trad climber up a multi-pitch. What I offered on the table was a very safe belay, strenght in following (I was sport climbing 5.11+), and gas money. Everyone loves gas money or getting bought dinner/lunch. What helped a lot was also my flexible schedule. I've now gotten enough experience and did the same for the community by taking out new people that have asked me in hopes they will eventually do the same. Having lunch paid for and them driving helped too.

Hopefully it helps that, for a newer climber, I'm not horrible. I can also offer most of those things... I guess I'm just new in the community and unfamiliar with the norms.

Again, probably much easier than I'm fearing

I'm not familiar with the AMC curriculum, so take the following with a grain of salt. If it was a "multi-week" program, I would absolutely expect that you would have developed solid anchoring skills and are therefore now able to set up top-ropes on your own. In that case, consider spending time at Peterskill, which is basically the TR area of the Gunks. The climbing there is as challenging as anything you could want. (My $0.02, the routes are short and so you spend more time on cruxy climbing than on so many Trapps multi-pitch routes, where long stretches are relatively easy. As a result, you can develop your climbing skills and fitness more quickly at PK than elsewhere. The tradeoff is that you don't learn route-finding, multipitch management, and exposure.) It's not all TR, and I encourage you to lead routes at PK that are well within your skill/gear level. PM me if you want some suggestions on appropriate routes and gear requirements there.

If you're not at least TR anchor competent, then I have to wonder how good the AMC course really is.

As for finding a mentor, keep asking around, posting notes in the gym and on MP etc. But consider that many mentor-newb relationships start off slowly. Asking for someone to be your mentor is like asking for someone to have your children. It's rushing into things. Instead, look for a few good dates that might lead to a longer term relationship. That is, find someone to climb with for a day. That's it, one day. No long term commitment. Then if it goes well, maybe you climb with them again. Maybe it becomes something long term, maybe it doesn't. Repeat with other partners.

This doesn't really answer your question, but there's something to be said for hiring a guide for a weekend. It can be a little pricey (on the order of ~$300 for a weekend) but you'll learn much more much faster having a qualified mentor who is 100% focused on maximizing your learning experience. If you go into the experience already being competent with the basics (knots, how to lead sport, etc) then it is very reasonable to learn enough in a weekend to be able to safely get out on your own and continue gaining experience.

I've seen many incompetent trad leaders attempting to instruct their friends at the crag, giving everything from incomplete to just flat out wrong advice. Even looking up to a badass hard-pulling friend can be a roll of the dice, because there are a lot of strong leaders out there whose strength and natural ability mask the fact that their rock-craft is actually relatively mediocre. Unfortunately, as an inexperienced leader it is difficult to tell who really knows what they are doing and who is simply strong and lucky (so far).

Gunkiemike wrote:I'm not familiar with the AMC curriculum, so take the following with a grain of salt. If it was a "multi-week" program, I would absolutely expect that you would have developed solid anchoring skills and are therefore now able to set up top-ropes on your own. In that case, consider spending time at Peterskill, which is basically the TR area of the Gunks. The climbing there is as challenging as anything you could want. (My $0.02, the routes are short and so you spend more time on cruxy climbing than on so many Trapps multi-pitch routes, where long stretches are relatively easy. As a result, you can develop your climbing skills and fitness more quickly at PK than elsewhere. The tradeoff is that you don't learn route-finding, multipitch management, and exposure.) It's not all TR, and I encourage you to lead routes at PK that are well within your skill/gear level. PM me if you want some suggestions on appropriate routes and gear requirements there. If you're not at least TR anchor competent, then I have to wonder how good the AMC course really is. As for finding a mentor, keep asking around, posting notes in the gym and on MP etc. But consider that many mentor-newb relationships start off slowly. Asking for someone to be your mentor is like asking for someone to have your children. It's rushing into things. Instead, look for a few good dates that might lead to a longer term relationship. That is, find someone to climb with for a day. That's it, one day. No long term commitment. Then if it goes well, maybe you climb with them again. Maybe it becomes something long term, maybe it doesn't. Repeat with other partners.

I'll be sure to check out Peterskill this weekend. The AMC course had us build and take down anchors throughout the entire course. At the end of the course, we had to demonstrate our ability independently to build and take down TR anchors, tie knots, rappel, and take down fixed anchors (this was less of a focus since it's a course more focused on trad and TR).

I guess I'll just have to make sure that I'm out enough to make my face known, and do my best not too appear to sketchy.

You will definitely be matched up on day 2 (Sunday at the Gunks) - I know as I am involved in the matching. Biggest concern is to have dry rock.

But for the future - don't stress it too much - keep your eyes and ears open, use the forums on the web site.

Nothing that unique about finding a climbing mentor vs a mentor in any other context - be someone that people want to hang out with. Search out Rich Goldstone's soliloquy on "How to get asked on a 2nd date" (something like that) if you want lots of specific suggestions.

Dear Lofg0029,

The Boston program is excellent and the leaders should be able to introduce you to appropriate potential partners. I climb with the CT AMC and often take out new leaders, but many trad-daddies won't climb with someone they haven't met before without a reference from someone they know. Also, you should check the AMC event calendar for other chapters' trips (CT, Berkshires, Narragansett...).

You may also have better luck if you fill out your MP profile a bit more (age, location, experience). It's somewhat more reassuring when a new climber has a name and a little bit of a resume. The MP ticklist feature is really useful for a new leader. Besides tracking your progress, you can include notes to yourself (ex. "Led P1 w/Bob. Next time bring a #5 cam!!). Many people write this stuff in their guidebook...but then lose the book.

Peterskill is definitely a good place to practice your skills, however make sure you bring a good amount of webbing or a static line as there are only a few bolted anchors and most of the Pitch Pines are off limits for anchoring there. I wouldn't go there this weekend though if you can get matched up with a leader for more multi-pitch in the Trapps.

Eric Engberg wrote:Search out Rich Goldstone's soliloquy on "How to get asked on a 2nd date" (something like that) if you want lots of specific suggestions.

http://mountainproject.com/v/how-to-get-asked-out-on-a-second-date/110204013

It's a sticky at the top of the Beginning Climbers forum.

Eric,

That's reassuring! For reference, I was climbing on Tarzan this past Saturday, shortly before you and your partner climbed it.

Thanks for the advice everyone. After work today, I'll give the "How to get asked on a second date" post a thorough read.

Figured I'd follow up. Climbed with two different trad leaders on Saturday and Sunday. Both were awesome. I tried my best to follow the proper etiquette of a good second described in the post "How to get asked out on a second date". I think I did a not terrible job. There were a couole of pitches where my leader had to remind me "you should be flaking out the rope", or after a harder pitch he reminded me to anchor immediately while I was still on belay, but I got better as the day went on. I'm learning. I recovered all of his gear and at the end of the day, he said I did a really good job. That made me feel good.

All in all, about 12-14 pitches. The highlights were CCK direct, pitch 1 of erect direction, city lights, and son of easy O. Mostly 5.8-5.9ish stuff with a really fun 5.5 called Horseman.

Still not sure how to find a permanent trad mentor, but I'll keep climbing whenever and with whoever (is experienced and safe) that I can.

Still riding the buzz of an awesome climbing weekend and can't wait to get out again next weekend.