Is It Wrong to Let Children Do Extreme Sports?

"for those of you who are telling me that there are better feelings, have you ever free soloed before (because you wanted to, not because you needed to)?"

yes

"what did you feel?"

on something like the 2nd or 3rd flatiron, it's fun. anything harder and i feel like an idiot, honestly.

for me, a superior feeling is the knowledge that i won't splatter on the ground and cause my family and friends pain. a short-lived adrenaline rush is meaningless in comparison.

One of the amazing things about climbing is that it gives different things at different stages in your life. At 49 I find the most reward from long days with my regular climbing partners or taking newer climbers out and seeing their stoke

^ yeah, it's aight. Only through climbing can you find yourself, and other bullshit like that (Roper). Although, a few years back I had an awesome night with a girl who was a Maxim hometown hottie. That was way better than any climbing I've ever done. Wait a minute, oh yeah kids and extreme sports... Uh, there's an overpopulation problem, the riskier the better.

The biggest rush I've ever had was in a prolonged firefight outside of Fallujah, Iraq. I was 19 years old and thought I was the worlds biggest badass. It was adrenaline pumping, macho bullshit. I probably reloaded 3 cans on the Ma Deuce (.50 cal machine gun) and did some damage to say the least. In retrospect, it was a mixture of fear and an adrenaline high. I can even ascribe it to being fun, and many times I have thought how I wish I was doing it again, but then my rationale says "hold up buddy, you were a punk ass kid who didn't know the consequences." When you don't understand the risk, and it's likelihood of messing up everything, it's euphoric, I get it.

Cornelius Jefferson wrote: you realize many of us have been climbing longer than you've been alive don't you?

Ha. I love it.

yes i understand that y'all have been climbing much longer than i have been alive. i don't think y'all understand that it isn't an adrenaline rush. i've felt adrenaline rushes and i don't really like it because it makes me feel out of control. i don't feel a rush, but rather pure serenity and calmness, free of all the stress and pressure from other people. but since i'm bonkers, it doesn't matter so i'll step out now

Scott E. wrote:The adolescent brain has an unusual take on evaluating risk, as-in, the teenage brain doesn't evaluate risk. That's where adults come into the picture.

I wrote that earlier.

The problem with adults coming into the picture is perfectly illustrated by Eli. Not only does the adolescent brain have great difficulty appropriately evaluating risk, the same brain most definitely sees itself as perfectly mature and developed enough to make sane and rational decisions without accepting input from the wisdom of age and experience.

Steven Groetken wrote:The biggest rush I've ever had was in a prolonged firefight outside of Fallujah, Iraq. I was 19 years old and thought I was the worlds biggest badass. It was adrenaline pumping, macho bullshit. I probably reloaded 3 cans on the Ma Deuce (.50 cal machine gun) and did some damage to say the least. In retrospect, it was a mixture of fear and an adrenaline high. I can even ascribe it to being fun, and many times I have thought how I wish I was doing it again, but then my rationale says "hold up buddy, you were a punk ass kid who didn't know the consequences." When you don't understand the risk, and it's likelihood of messing up everything, it's euphoric, I get it.

Thanks for the honesty. For all my life as kid, I was going to be marine (my old man was an ex marine DI) circumstances steered me away from it, when I look back, I shudder at the choices I might have made (Vietnam would have been my war). I do not believe that youth has enough perspective to make choices that will stand the test of time, that's why the military likes them young.

"That’s his choice, if he wants to do it again,” Geoff says. “I’ll never tell him no.”

This is the problem. This is poor parenting. The kid should not be the one in charge.

eli poss wrote:yes i understand that y'all have been climbing much longer than i have been alive. i don't think y'all understand that it isn't an adrenaline rush. i've felt adrenaline rushes and i don't really like it because it makes me feel out of control. i don't feel a rush, but rather pure serenity and calmness, free of all the stress and pressure from other people. but since i'm bonkers, it doesn't matter so i'll step out now

This... If I get an adrenaline rush when climbing, it means I'm doing something wrong.

eli poss wrote:yes i understand that y'all have been climbing much longer than i have been alive. i don't think y'all understand that it isn't an adrenaline rush. i've felt adrenaline rushes and i don't really like it because it makes me feel out of control. i don't feel a rush, but rather pure serenity and calmness, free of all the stress and pressure from other people. but since i'm bonkers, it doesn't matter so i'll step out now

PM me if you want to hear about my accident involving soloing.

There are a few people out there that probably shouldn't reproduce yet

Kids will do extreme sports no matter whether we let or don't them. It is safer to provide them all necessary education and infrastructure.

Jake Jones wrote:So, soloing is dangerous. Got it. Also, writing a post that long and with that much exclamation and then telling someone else to take a chill pill is more than a little ironic. Are Coast Guardies called sailors too? Always wondered that.

If you thought that was too much, that's on me. Just wanted to get an important point across, that's all. I changed it.

Good question. Sometimes we're refered to as sailors by the public. Our underway times aren't 8-10 months long like the Navy. The most common name we're called by the general public is Guardians, due to search & rescue. To other service members, we're Coasties.

The main point of the article in question was not freesoloing. The consequences for freesoloing are at best, death, or at worst a lifetime of quadraparalysis.

The kids in the article were skateboarding, snowboarding, and yes rock climbing. Statistically, rock climbing is one of the safest "extreme" (really hate that term) sports. When done *correctly* climbing just looks dangerous (to the general public).

Flip the tables and ask if its ok to let kids do contact sports. Knowing what we know now about TBI and traumatic encephalopathy, one could ask is it wrong to let kids play tackle football or hockey? When your kid gets two, three, or four concussions you know that affects their cognitive ability right? Diminished cognitive ability = diminished career opportunities in modern America.

I'm not saying kids shouldn't take risks or get knocked around a little, but why put them in a situation where it is more likely than not on a repeated basis?

Cornelius Jefferson wrote: you realize many of us have been climbing longer than you've been alive don't you?

Yea and i am sure there are tons of people who have been climbing for years on the same 5.7 route.

I think a kid who has had those kind of injuries (i don't care if he is 13) can be a better judge of whether or not he feels it is worth the risk than any one of us who has never so much as scratched a knee on a skateboard.

1000s of years ago at 13 people were married and had the first kid on their way.

I have done tons of things over the years and ended up with lots of injuries and a brother who was 2 years older than me dying at 13. I still do the same stuff (probably more extreme now) but I have always been aware of the risk involved since i was 10. To be honest i never expected to make it as old as i am now and the problem is trying to figure out what I will do with the rest of my life (not career wise i have a good IT job and make plenty of money)

The only problem i see is when you are going after money at which point you are wasting your time and risking your life for nothing.

Ian G. wrote:Flip the tables and ask if its ok to let kids do contact sports. Knowing what we know now about TBI and traumatic encephalopathy, one could ask is it wrong to let kids play tackle football or hockey? When your kid gets two, three, or four concussions you know that affects their cognitive ability right?

I've seen this article get posted other places and every time someone responds with "what about hockey/football/etc". The article never said those sports were safe and the times has published numerous articles about the dangers of those sports.

I myself played hockey for many years as a child and after my third concussion, was told that playing contact sports anymore was a bad choice. I also coached girls soccer for many years and was well versed and aware of concussions. We had enough PD and training in how to identify, prevent, and treat concussions that I felt adequately prepared to deal head injuries.
Now on the other hand, I snowboarded and skateboarded growing up (one competitively, the other daily without oversight). In both of these sports, I never had anyone keeping a detailed history of injuries or anyone intentionally checking me for concussions every day. Now I also know a handful of other people involved in coaching climbing and while they are all well versed in wilderness first aid, I don't find the support system there to initial training as a required yearly professional development, especially in dealing with or identifying things like concussions.

That is to say that because of how organized team sports are, there is almost always an immense amount of resources spent training and overseeing each athlete. On the other hand, individual sports that very rarely are actually organized in the same way team sports are, tend to have more opportunities for non-obvious injuries to slip through the cracks.

beensandbagged wrote: i do not believe that youth has enough perspective to make choices that will stand the test of time, that's why the military likes them young.

So we like young kids because they lack rational, informed decision making skills, and they favor short term gain over long term? Makes sense.

We recruit young kids because we need people who can react quickly, and who are fast and agile while carrying a crap load of weight in high temperatures under life threatening conditions. We need people who are not going to get tired after running 300 feet in the desert. We also need people who can push their body hard with a low likelihood of injury. Last, we recruit young people simple because it matches the ranking structure of the military. It doesent really make sense to have some 35 year old recruit working for a 25 year old who has been in for five years already.

Most would say, and have said this is extreme for my seven year old and nine year old to do. I say, huh? I would never let them play football. They get hurt riding their bikes every week. Keep them as safe as possible for as long as possible. But have lots of fun doing it!

Kids climbing

Cornelius Jefferson wrote: lol Incoherent ramblings seem to be your 'thing' VP so you were capable of rational decisions about risk when you were 10? bullshit.

Yes, I have been very aware of risk since I was 10. I would say more aware than most in their 20s. I also graduated at 16 with a computer science degree so I think very logically.

I think the difference is just because it scares you and you think it is too risky doesn't mean that just because someone is younger doesn't mean they aren't fully aware of the risk. At the same time i know plenty of people in their 20s that i will not climb with because they have no concept of risk / danger involved in what they are doing.

How many people do you know have watched someone die doing "extreme" sports? I have since I was 10 so I know exactly what could happen. I know what kinda effect it left on the family... i am still willing to make the choice and risk it.

Sure my mom still gets freaked out (i told her after i went sky diving the first time, she came and watched me later) but I have got her to understand that I know the risk and would rather risk death and live life than sit in a room all day playing video games (which i still do sometimes because i grew up hacking / moding games).

My point is you can't base someone's understanding off of age.