Dragon's Tail Couloir in RMNP

I am in a group that is hoping to attempt Dragon's Tail Couloir this Sunday (if the weather and snow conditions are right) and I'm tasked to research the climb. Does anyone here have advice on the climb in general or on the following points?

1) How long would it roughly take to get to the base of the couloir from Bear Lake Trailhead in current conditions?
2) What time would you typically start a climb like this in order to get off the couloir before the snow is too soft?
3) Do you think that given the current conditions, the couloir snow would be solid enough for a team of beginners to climb?
4) Do you think snowshoes would be necessary to get to the couloir, given the snow depth around Bear Lake, or is there usually a trail to the couloir from Emerald Lake packed down by climbers?

Thanks! :)

Hey Jon,

Don't take this the wrong way since I know it's a basic class, but it sounds like he is asking YOU to research the climb. Asking others for the 100% of the answers isn't research. You are on MP...go to the dragon's tail page and see the distance and climbing recommendations. Go to the bear lake weather station site and look up current and recent conditions, and use NOAA.gov for weather and snowfall. Use google for a search to see what others have experienced. Go to summitpost.org. Buy freedom of the hills at REI. Use the CAIC colorado avalanche site for avy conditions.

That's the point of research man. Good luck hope some of those ideas help.

Asking others is valid research.

Look up avalanche conditions. Hit the Colorado Mountain School page. Google it.

Dragon's Tail Couloir is easy and skiable. In fact, there will be skiers and others out there this weekend.

Sure, floatation (skis and snowshoes) is necessary in the park. There will be a packed trail by this weekend but making your own is easy.

DTC is a straight forward day trip at most.

Go have fun on a good weekend.

CO_Michael wrote:Asking others is valid research.

I'm willing to bet his instructor didn't want him to go to MP and have everyone fill in the blanks for him. What is the point of that? An interview is valid research, not someone taking your test for you. Some of the stuff he is asking is on MP like the distance and time the climb.

The instructor is trying to get him to LEARN about the climb and what goes into it by doing pre-climb research. Nothing wrong with putting in effort especially as part of a class. It's not doing him any favors otherwise.

Just sayin.

Jon, I agree with Scott and would like to make one other point, which I hope goes without saying: regardless of what you hear from anyone on the internet, you have to make your own safety assessments during your approach, before you start the climb, and as you are climbing. Avy danger has been high due to all the recent snowfall, and the weather will remain unsettled this week.

The good news is that temps this week will be above freezing during the day, so the freeze-thaw cycles that we all count on to consolidate the snow pack are happening again, which allows safe climbing earlier in the day. South-facing Dragon's Tail can get a lot of sun and soften up quickly, although that doesn't appear as if it will be too much of a factor this week. Nevertheless, an early start is always a good idea this time of year.

Appended below are a few of my favorite links that I use for trip planning.

Have fun!

NOAA weather point forecast: forecast.weather.gov/MapCli…

Snotel.com for determining fresh snowfall amounts. Conveniently, there is a snotel station right at Bear Lake:
wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/reportGen…

CalTopo.com, which highlights avy-prone terrain and is useful for route planning:
caltopo.com/map.html#ll=40.…

and of course, the CAIC site, though they have gone into "Spring mode" and are posting only statewide avalanche summaries (updated Sunday, Friday and Wed afternoons)

From bear lake to the couloir takes about 2 hours, you'll need snowshoes for this regardless of what anyone else says. You will need to start the climb around 2:15 AM to get off before it is still soft, unless you are slow, then start a little earlier.
Don't forget forget a 70 m for the rock step. If exposed, this part is really sketchy and the 60 won't reach the good belay. I also felt two number sixes was absolutely mandatory for this climb. Remember to bring enough water. Because it is May, it will be really hot. You should consider bringing at least 4 liters.

Have fun!

I agree with Rcky Mnt.....lots of snow hit Sat and Sun and more unsettled moving through the area. The snow was packed with water which should help it consolidate better, but you better check the layers onsite or get an accurate avy forecast. I've found Google earth to be helpful in checking out cornice conditions as well.

matt c. wrote:From bear lake to the couloir takes about 2 hours, you'll need snowshoes for this regardless of what anyone else says. You will need to start the climb around 2:15 AM to get off before it is still soft, unless you are slow, then start a little earlier. Don't forget forget a 70 m for the rock step. If exposed, this part is really sketchy and the 60 won't reach the good belay. I also felt two number sixes was absolutely mandatory for this climb. Remember to bring enough water. Because it is May, it will be really hot. You should consider bringing at least 4 liters. Have fun!

Well, dang, I didn't want to get into details, but since matt started it, I would have to add that I never attempt Dragon's Tail without a Kompressor in case I need to use my pneumatic drill to add or replace bolts at the hanging belay. Especially when I am climbing with beginners . . .

Thanks for the responses everyone, that is very helpful information. In regard to Scott's comment, we have actually done most of the research, but it is hard to find answers to some specific questions, which is why I posted here. The experiences of other climbers are often infinitely more valuable than any info posted on route pages. The Dragon's Tail route page on MP is not very detailed in that respect and it doesn't seem like people post conditions very often.

We are definitely planning to assess the situation once we get to the couloir and we have experienced people who can help us determine if the conditions are OK.

EDIT: It seems I missed a joke on the equipment lol

Just curious - What company or school is taking you on this little adventure?

2am....70m rope....two #6's....4 L of water....a drill...hanging belay

Devin nooooooo! Bad! You fell for it

Let's go on a snipe hunt!

My bad, carry on.

Good luck man!

Jonathan Dunder wrote:Thanks for the responses everyone, that is very helpful information. In regard to Scott's comment, we have actually done most of the research, but it is hard to find answers to some specific questions, which is why I posted here. The experiences of other climbers are often infinitely more valuable than any info posted on route pages. The Dragon's Tail route page on MP is not very detailed in that respect and it doesn't seem like people post conditions very often. We are definitely planning to assess the situation once we get to the couloir and we have experienced people who can help us determine if the conditions are OK. EDIT: It seems I missed a joke on the equipment lol

Joke? I forgot....take some ascenders in case someone left their 70m as a fixed line on the step. That way you can just jug up that sucker. Make sure you don't use some of the tattered hemp ones that are hanging from old pins unless you bounce test them by filling your haul bag(you are bringing a haul bag right?) With snow, anchoring it to the old ropes, and then tossing it down the couloir. If it doesn't break, or the pin holds, you're good to go.

Jonathan Dunder wrote:I am in a group that is hoping to attempt Dragon's Tail Couloir this Sunday (if the weather and snow conditions are right) and I'm tasked to research the climb. Does anyone here have advice on the climb in general or on the following points? 1) How long would it roughly take to get to the base of the couloir from Bear Lake Trailhead in current conditions? 2) What time would you typically start a climb like this in order to get off the couloir before the snow is too soft? 3) Do you think that given the current conditions, the couloir snow would be solid enough for a team of beginners to climb? 4) Do you think snowshoes would be necessary to get to the couloir, given the snow depth around Bear Lake, or is there usually a trail to the couloir from Emerald Lake packed down by climbers? Thanks! :)

I like how this was posted here and on 14ers.com.

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