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Tallulah Gorge Peregrines

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Love it or leave it Rhett.

Jim Corbett · · Keene, NY · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 10

I'm going to hijack, but, since this has been mentioned several times: Did some fool down there bolt a crack? And the bolts are still there? Are they retro-bolting again? Is the SCC actually condoning/performing this crap?

I thought we put a stop to this BS when we did a very public clean up of retro routes at Sandrock in the '90s. We knew that SR was probably unsaveable anyway, but the idea was to make it clear that such stuff would not be tolerated. The HPSC may have scattered to the four corners (can't think of any still in GA), but that just makes us dormant, not defunct. We're still locals. And if I find out any of my routes get retroed I'll make a special trip to clean it up.

MLuke · · Decatur, GA · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 0

The mainstream media picked up on this this morning. It was posted in the Atlanta Business Chronicle and some other papers.

bizjournals.com/atlanta/mor…

http://www.albanyherald.com/news/2015/may/14/first-peregrine-falcon-nest-in-80-years-in/

Honestly, it's nice to have some positive press from rock climbers at Tallulah. Most of the time all you hear about is somebody damaging something or hurting themselves.

Rhett Burroughs · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 230

Ben, sometimes to go rock climbing, you actually need access to the rocks :)

I will gladly pay a entry fee to climb somewhere. Sorry if you get hurt rock climbing. Its dangerous and sometimes people get hurt when they over step their boundaries. Sometimes its just a bad unfortunate event. Tallulah is a well protected place so getting hurt there should only happen by someone that doesn't know how to place gear. Its not Big Green where your looking at total lower body dismemberment if you blow it. If they are shutting down Tallulah they need to shut down all access. That is what I'm pissed about. It isn't fair, but its the government so its not supposed to be. Land of the free right? How did the song go??? "Your land is my land....?" Glad my money over the past years has gone to making sure that bird doesn't die now.

Maybe if the government wanted to do something they would band pesticides by farmers so that the birds could prosper more. Fuck it I'm leaving to go out west anyways. You guys have fun at Yonah watching rednecks go in.

"The cause of the peregrine falcon disappearance was pesticides, specifically DDT. In the middle of the century, DDT was sprayed on farmland and the chemical made its way into the food chain. Peregrine falcons are top predators and thus absorbed large amounts of DDT from their prey like fish and other birds. " <--Weird how rock climbers don't put pesticides in our chalk

-"http://www.nwf.org/wildlife/wildlife-library/birds/peregrine-falcon.aspx"-

saxfiend · · Decatur, GA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,221
Rhett Burroughs wrote:If they are shutting down Tallulah they need to shut down all access. That is what I'm pissed about. It isn't fair, but its the government so its not supposed to be. Land of the free right? How did the song go??? "Your land is my land....?" Glad my money over the past years has gone to making sure that bird doesn't die now.
This is really nothing to get worked up about. A temporary ban on climbing right now at Tallulah concerns me about as much as a ban on water skiing on Lake Superior in the dead of winter. Just keep things in perspective.

JL
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
Jim Corbett wrote:I'm going to hijack, but, since this has been mentioned several times: Did some fool down there bolt a crack? And the bolts are still there? Are they retro-bolting again? Is the SCC actually condoning/performing this crap? I thought we put a stop to this BS when we did a very public clean up of retro routes at Sandrock in the '90s. We knew that SR was probably unsaveable anyway, but the idea was to make it clear that such stuff would not be tolerated. The HPSC may have scattered to the four corners (can't think of any still in GA), but that just makes us dormant, not defunct. We're still locals. And if I find out any of my routes get retroed I'll make a special trip to clean it up.
Pappy...short answers...Yes, Yes, yes, and Yes. ONE route in question is called "Sport Rack Crack"...at The Dihedrals of all places...FA credited to none other than the current President of the SCC.

PM Ben to be forwarded a voluminous email thread between many names you will recognize as a few old timers tried to offer these misguided youths a little direction....to no avail.
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
Jim Corbett wrote:I'm going to hijack, but, since this has been mentioned several times: Did some fool down there bolt a crack? And the bolts are still there? Are they retro-bolting again? Is the SCC actually condoning/performing this crap? I thought we put a stop to this BS when we did a very public clean up of retro routes at Sandrock in the '90s. We knew that SR was probably unsaveable anyway, but the idea was to make it clear that such stuff would not be tolerated. The HPSC may have scattered to the four corners (can't think of any still in GA), but that just makes us dormant, not defunct. We're still locals. And if I find out any of my routes get retroed I'll make a special trip to clean it up.
Jim....

You're foresight was diligent...
Sandrock has fallen.
J.A. has prostletized a new wave of bolting in AL and beyond.

Huntville crags are also a lost cause.
Yellow Bluff....retros and crack bolting.
Painted Bluff...ancient native american markings defaced.

Little River Canyon is being preserved via the efforts of the chieftain there and his "fix-it" initiative.

In Chattanooga, there is sanctioned, funded bolt and fixed draw installation running rampant.
Even at the TWall.
Nevermind, Deep Creek, Foster's etc...
Castle Rock and Bee Rock (verboten) have both suffered this ill use!!

But, fret not....
THEY are not interested in slabbing it up in WNC, so we all have some solace there.
Lost Wall and Sunset are safe under those park systems.
Steele, Y.C. (also, verboten), and Jamestown are safe because the HPSC has been resurrected.

Notice a pattern?
Notice a proximity issue?
Like a cancer spreading across the Northern T.A.G....
Emanating from Chattanooga.

PM me through the site with your email.
Jim Corbett · · Keene, NY · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 10
BHMBen wrote: Notice a proximity issue? Like a cancer spreading across the Northern T.A.G.... Emanating from Chattanooga.
Yes, a couple of friends of mine have recently warned me of that, and that the Chattanooga weenies have discovered one of the undocumented areas we climbed at a lot in the late '90s. Those are the routes I'm most concerned about,(and the other undocumented areas we did then), and no, weenies, the fact that a route is not documented does not mean that retros should not and won't be removed, it just means you were ignorant (not intended as a put down, just a statement of fact) instead of an outright d!ck, unless of course it's an obvious crack, then you're still a d!ck.

Back to our regularly scheduled program, since this is the first 'wild' nest in GA in 80 years I think the Park's reaction is overblown but understandable. You should forgive the Park and try to score some good will for having presented something to them that I'm sure has them wriggling like an excited puppy, especially since this nest presents viewing possibilities that are somewhat better than, say, the S. face of Whitesides. And as sax pointed out, you've got to be an idiot to climb there this time of year anyway. It's the damn summers that finally drove me out of the SE.

Unless of course it becomes a pretext to close the place to climbing permanently, but I think (hope) that's a little paranoid.
Todd Wells · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 1
facebook.com/tennesseeriver…

The true colors of today's SCC in one photo, and this is happening all over Chattanooga. "Access" now means route development to the SCC and that means bolting, including the sanctioned bolting of cracks and established climbs on private property and in state-protected natural areas. It is nothing more than a lobby group for sport climbers hiding behind its non-profit status and its image as a conservation organization. Be glad they're not interested in "helping" with Tallulah access.
shannon stegg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 0

Well said Todd! Unfortunately, Ben the cancer has spread to your beloved and ultra pure Carolina cliffs. Was up at Whitesides cleaning up anchors and cutting off tat on the Southwest end when I noticed a lone bolt twenty feet from the belay on the top of the second pitch of Boulder Problem in the Sky. Sorry, no new route, just a way to traverse to two new anchor bolts placed in the middle of Vaporizer. So if you hear or see any spray about anyone sending it, be sure to ask them how long the pitch was and you might just catch a poser by the toes.

Kirk Brode · · Chattanooga TN · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 21

Todd, does it matter to you that the route was bolted five years BEFORE the SCC had anything to do with Castle Rock? The SCC had nothing to do with that.

Tom Caldwell · · Clemson, S.C. · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 3,623
shannon stegg wrote:Well said Todd! Unfortunately, Ben the cancer has spread to your beloved and ultra pure Carolina cliffs. Was up at Whitesides cleaning up anchors and cutting off tat on the Southwest end when I noticed a lone bolt twenty feet from the belay on the top of the second pitch of Boulder Problem in the Sky. Sorry, no new route, just a way to traverse to two new anchor bolts placed in the middle of Vaporizer. So if you hear or see any spray about anyone sending it, be sure to ask them how long the pitch was and you might just catch a poser by the toes.
There are anchor bolts now in the middle of Vaporizer? I believe that lone bolt you are referring to has been present for years. I believe it is the one left of the P1 anchors. Don't look at me though, I have never placed a bolt at Whitesides. Besides, anyone can can get to the Vaporizer anchors by finishing on Boulder Problem or your new Bat Shit and just rapping down. I don't get why there would be a need for a bolt to get over there. Stephen, Andrew, and yourself are the only ones to have placed any bolts on that face that I know of in the last few years. Did this just happen in the last few weeks? I was there a little more than a month ago doing Bat Shit and SOS and didn't notice anything. Stephen F cut off the tat and removed the old hardware from the crux of Boulder Problem and replaced it with a bolt about 2 years ago. Is this what you are referring to?

Only two people are documented having sent that thing, Andrew and myself. That pitch is ~115 feet long if you start down on the slab ramp. It requires a 70 to get off unless you swing left to the upper ledge system under SOS and Airlie. Not sure who you are referring to...
Tom Caldwell · · Clemson, S.C. · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 3,623

Thinking about that bolt between Vaporizer and Boulder Problem, I believe someone tried to put a direct line into the crux of Boulder Problem that avoids the corner and climbs the face? That bolt I think is an old self-drive. Maybe Stephen or someone who has been climbing on that face longer than me could comment about the history of it. When Eric and I first tried Vaporizer, we led all the way to the P2 anchors on Boulder Problem then rappelled to the Vaporizer anchor with the yellow webbing and quick links. After that, we always led the climb ground up only using the three bolts you placed, one of them that Andrew moved. Not sure where you are getting your information from.

Thanks for updating the tat at the top of Boulder Problem. What did it get replaced with?

Todd Wells · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 1

No, Kirk, it doesn't bother me because the SCC--its officers and/or prime movers-- has actively bolted cracks and retro-bolted established climbs in a number of areas, including Castle Rock. Want to start naming areas? And the fact that the SCC would use a picture of a bolted crack in a promotional poster kinda tells you all you need to know about the ethical orientation of that organization.

Stephen Felker · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 552

I can't really picture what Shannon is describing. There is a bolt left of BPIS' P1 belay that can be used to skirt around to the top of Vaporizer, avoiding the second pitch. I was never sure of the story behind it.

IMO, the whole anchor layout up there could be improved and simplified:

(1) Redo BPIS P2 anchor with modern ring bolts, positioning them for easy use while standing on the ledge. The extra height would also make the fall from the crux a little less serious for the second.

(2) Pull the current Vaporizer anchor, which relies on old 8mm self drives, and extend Vaporizer the last few meters to the P2 belay ledge on BPIS. A couple of small cams protect a crack just left of Vaporizer's current anchor, maybe 10a and plumb. Sharing an anchor would require an 80m rope, or some trickery, to TR Vaporizer, but would reduce the bolt count and add a little more climbing to an awesome route!

(3) Pull that bolt left of P1 on BPIS, as well as any other random or retro bolts.

(4) Put a HARD route up and right out the giant roof!

Love it or leave it? Just straddle the fence!

Tom Caldwell · · Clemson, S.C. · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 3,623

These suggestions are spot on Stephen. I also second the line that goes out right. It will require some free climbing hard wear to go.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

The bolt mentioned is the one Stephen described. It's a big, beefy, uncommon hanger and if I'm not mistaken it's a sleeve bolt. Must be a traverse to vaporizer. There are rings on all three pitches now. P2 old anchors need to be chopped except for petzl long life which is a good shape and could use a quick link to have a three ring set up. Going out the roof on the right would be mostly a sport line. It'd be wise to at least top down preview it to make sure it will go in order to avoid potentially littering the rock with unnecessary bolts.

Stephen Felker · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 552

Nice! The classics of the deep south are slowly joining the 21st century!

Great point regarding a line out the roof. Something of that difficulty (no idea but prob at least 13+) needs to be carefully equipped in accordance with the movement of the route, not blindly bolted on a wing and a prayer.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
Todd Wells wrote:No, Kirk, it doesn't bother me because the SCC--its officers and/or prime movers-- has actively bolted cracks and retro-bolted established climbs in a number of areas, including Castle Rock. Want to start naming areas? And the fact that the SCC would use a picture of a bolted crack in a promotional poster kinda tells you all you need to know about the ethical orientation of that organization.
I just saw Todd's link....
Although, sadly, I have never been to Castle, whether those bolts were put their before the SCC had control or not, they need cut.
And you know who should take a hard line?
The very organization that, along with access, claims to support sustainability.
Sustainable practices do not involve bolted cracks on private land.
The fact that the route remains on SCC-supported land is a knod in the direction of the crack bolter.

And, what's this?
The screenshot below was delivered to me recently, as I have no Facebook account...
Not only does the SCC use that route on their flyer (seems almost incendiary), not only do they align the interests of a supposedly private business with their 501c3, the "bolt commitee" must support the President passing out bolts to the "area rep" for "development"....

Castle Rock.

Kirk....I respect you and have enjoyed our breif interactions....
But, surely, you're not gonna use the cop-out, "it was already there" routine, are ya?

Look to Stephen and Tom's, NC/Traditionalist-heavy discussions on the SW Corner of Whitesides.
Near and dear to my heart, Andrew, Stephen, Shannon, Tom's....
Open discussion of what could be a 13ish sport route, yet "check it for viability", "don't just go bolting to bolt" (I paraphrase)...
If this were a Chatt-centric discussion: DRILLBABYDRILL!

Tallulah is shut down.
The TWall has permadraws.
Castle has a bolt right next to a crack and, presumably, several.
Yellow Bluff has been 90% retro'd/grid bolted and Sanrock is like a jungle gym.

I say again....KEEP YOUR MONEY.
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Proof positive that it's nothing but a cliquish bro man network of hypocritical posers perpetuating their own existence with other people's money.

Next chapter we'll be touching on shady land deals and how the owner of HP40 strongarmed the SCC into not allowing camping on SCC owned property at Steele. Stay tuned...

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern States
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